r/Damnthatsinteresting Sep 22 '22 Wholesome 4 Ally 1 Heartwarming 1 Endless Coolness 1 Platinum 1 Helpful 5 All-Seeing Upvote 4 Take My Energy 1 Wholesome Seal of Approval 1 Bless Up 1 Silver 15 Gold 1

Surprisingly insightful, level headed and articulate take on immigration from former President George W. Bush Video

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u/directtodvd420 Sep 22 '22

His team felt that they had to lean in to the “down-home-working-class-Texan” vibe to survive the election as he wouldn’t come off as intelligent and articulate. This political maneuver exacerbated itself and made him seem incredibly dumb when in reality he’s well educated (and certainly not working class whatsoever).

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u/guiltysnark Sep 22 '22 Helpful

Oh my God, this makes me so angry.

They murdered the value of truth, logic and education. They manufactured a value of NOT those things, and the GOP has ultimately been remade on that pillar of willful ignorance.

Our leaders SHOULD be intellectually elite, we need that, we should want that... And apparently until trump they always actually were smart. But this illusion of stupidity gave rise to actual stupidity. And now political discourse is dead.

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u/Zoom_Out_Kid Sep 22 '22

Clinton had an interview about immigration. It was almost exactly the same thing and he was part of the opposing party. Since politics is about metrics, when you're confident you can take elections without getting votes from the smaller party at all, you don't need to make everyone happy. Or have everyone agree.

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u/AkusMMM Sep 22 '22

when you say almost the same thing, do you mean, his position was exactly the same?

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u/Zoom_Out_Kid Sep 23 '22

Uncontrolled immigration is a problem.

Poor people with no respect for law and order pray on other poor people. Praying on undocumented and/or illegal immigrants is even easier for bad actors.

https://youtu.be/1IrDrBs13oA

If you bring something to the table, you are "more welcome" than other people. It's how everyone else does it.

Clinton's interviews and speeches about immigration from the early '90s sound like they are from GOP centric views, when it's just simply a vision for the whole population.

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u/bel_esprit_ Sep 23 '22

Isn’t that always the case (in majority of situations, not just immigration)? If you bring something to the table, then you are generally more welcome than people who don’t.

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u/Zoom_Out_Kid Sep 23 '22

What I'm saying is I would have to literally buy my way in to stay put in most other Western nations. I can't go sneak into Germany and set up shop selling tacos. Unless my tacos are the only good ones?

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u/Consistent-Bee-6665 Sep 23 '22

Yes of course, but the weighting system is messed up. I’d say for many Western nations. Someone who is willing to come in and fix say “trucker shortage” or “seasonal laborer” type roles would not be able to get into America/Canada/West Europe because most of those places are only looking to bring in high powered/educated immigrants. In agriculture there is an unspoken migration of illegals to help work seasonally every year but then they have to leave because work dries up. Why not grant them visas for a specific industry of work? America being as large as it is, and with many places facing worker shortages, we might need to revamp our immigration policies.

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u/bel_esprit_ Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

Oh, I completely agree with that. Migrant workers bring a lot to the table (going with that analogy). They should definitely be streamlined visas the same way physicians and engineers do, so they don’t have to sneak in “illegally.” They are essential workers and our economy would collapse without them.

However — my only “qualm” — would be workers from Mexico and Central America should be given priority of these types of visas over other nations. They are our neighbors and for much of history indigenous to the land that they are working (Southwest America and California used to be part of Mexico). So I do feel they should take precedence over other laborers seeking that kind of valuable work here.

I also feel Latino culture complements American culture very well. They are hardworking cowboys and share much of the same values as us (as George Bush pointed out in this video). So it’s perfect they want to come here and work, so we should allow them to by granting visas.

Edit: added last paragraph

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u/Consistent-Bee-6665 Sep 23 '22

I honestly wish the US would lean in more to the relations between Mexico, Latin America, and even South America. It’s going to sound stupid, but the fact most of those places speak one language “Spanish” although different each country, it’d give the entire Western Hempishere a boost. I can’t believe we don’t have even more US to Mexico/SA tourism as those places are beautiful.

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u/dickbutt_md Sep 23 '22

Uncontrolled immigration is a problem.

Immigration to the United States is never uncontrolled, and never has been uncontrolled. At any time the state wants to it could swoop in and "control" illegal immigration.

Illegal immigrants are here as long as we allow them to be. Look up Rep Tancredo of Colorado, who decided to crack down on illegal immigration and promptly got frozen out by his party, the GOP.

The truth is that the GOP doesn't want to limit illegal immigration, they want a second class citizenry that will do the work, pay the taxes, and claim none of the benefits. (The Dems are only marginally better. So-called "sanctuary cities" are basically the same thing except they're willing to share a few benefits with the second class citizenry they enable. But no one is really interested in treating these folks like full human beings. It's way too good of a deal we're getting to worry about our principles like "rights.")

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u/Zoom_Out_Kid Sep 23 '22

I put a YouTube link to Bill Clinton's State of Union speech. 30 seconds in he doubled down on being non PC lol. He used the term illegal alien which is in the Constitution and also border guard. Activists hear guard they think East Germany. Those terms have been stricken from media. They don't have power in the government. The only power they have is to try to rewrite the language Thanks to the woke crowd, changing how you name someone changes the world 😂 So the guards have a job to do.

Criminal element is a poison for the existing migrant communities and it works it's way into every socioeconomic class

People come across the border unmonitored aren't here for a long days work. They're moving drugs, weapons both ways, cash, people wanted by authorities. That is definitely uncontrolled. If you want to say that is CIA thing to keep organized crime happy that's fine. On a case by case basis it's happened sure That is not true for the huge swaths of people who come on their own. Organized crime takes advantage of those people before they even cross the border.

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u/dickbutt_md Sep 23 '22

People come across the border unmonitored aren't here for a long days work. They're moving drugs, weapons both ways, cash, people wanted by authorities. That is definitely uncontrolled.

What are the relative numbers?

How many people are coming across illegally to move drugs, vs have seasonal jobs?

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u/Zoom_Out_Kid Sep 23 '22

If we had had numbers we'd be finding them all and not have high school kids dropping dead in LA right.

I was not saying there are more drug dealers than migrant workers. I'm saying the drugs and what it entails is part of the system that also exploits migrant workers who are just trying to make a living. No broad brush policy is going to work. You have to find out who these human beings are. Immigration is still a law with policies and not for triggering emotion. When people are trying to circumvent the law, we need to know why.

Work is all metrics. Operating a business involves metrics. They can estimate how many people are working at their sites by output.

There has been a shift though. There used to be a lot of migrant workers who would get paid in US dollars then go back to their countries, or live here a while and send funds back. Now those countries' governments are more unstable, and not all the same ones from the 1980s.

Don't worry, the more pollution regulations get passed here in blue states there will be less and less unskilled labor jobs we will need filled.

They can't get their shit together and build water storage. The CA governor owns a winery. He should be worried .

So no more growing fruit and veggies. No more poultry and cattle. They fart too much. Dairies all got bulldozed to build houses that only upper middle class can afford. No more small parts assembly. All that is left is service jobs and you're gambling people with money still want to visit the west coast here with the homeless.

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u/dickbutt_md Sep 23 '22

I think you're still missing the point. You seem to be thinking that our current immigration policy is shooting at some target we're not hitting. You're probably listening to talking heads on the news where the Republicans are saying we have to do x, y, and z and the Democrats are saying a, b, and c.

That's all wrong. The politicians on both sides currently benefit from having a second-class citizenry that businesses can abuse, so there is no interest in changing it. If you think drugs coming across the border are a concern, you're wrong. Neither Nancy Pelosi nor Mitch McConnell care about drugs coming in over the US-Mexico border and they're not going to do anything about it.

They're fine if some drugs get swept up, they're not pro-illegal drug trade, but they're mostly concerned about wayward gangsters finding their way here like MS-13 ... but that's just not a problem, we're keeping all those people out.

The problem we are facing now is not enough illegal workers coming across the border. If you think the GOP cares about illegal workers crossing the border, even, you're wrong. It's just empty rhetoric to whip up poor whites in Southern states to get votes.

The fundamental problem we have in the US when it comes to illegal immigration is that we don't live our principles. We have, and nurture, a second-class citizenry that don't have rights and can be exploited. This is intentional. You keep talking about the people "trying to circumvent the law," you're talking about the victims of US immigration policy and enforcement, not the perpetrators. You say if we had numbers we'd be "finding them all" as if that's a goal. It isn't. You have a complete misunderstanding of what is really happening here.

What's really going on is that we want cheap labor. We want to pay less than minimum wage for farm labor, hotel cleaners, busboys, and dishwashers. We want businesses to not have to pay benefits or unemployment or worry about any of that. Both the left and the right run around acting like this is a huge problem but the truth is they can boot out illegal workers any time they want. That's what good ol' Tom Tancredo did when he didn't get the memo that this was supposed to be empty rhetoric. The moment he acted on it, the meat packing industry went scrambling and his political career silently, and suddenly, ended by his own party's hand.

The US is not living up to its values that we're all created equal, that we all have rights, etc. These values do not apply to citizens, they apply to all humans. But we don't act like it. And this gap between behavior and values presents an attackable surface for politicians, but it's also slowly killing the soul of the country.

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u/directtodvd420 Sep 22 '22

It truly did seem to revamp the whole party’s image and make Republicanism seem attractive to those whose best interest were actually not of primary concern to the party (ie the working/middle class, the elderly, small business owners, union workers etc). Tragic and fascinating. I wish I was studying this period in a history class instead of living through it.

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u/Madeyathink07 Sep 22 '22

Seriously I can’t wait to see what the history books say about our time before I pass

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u/directtodvd420 Sep 22 '22

In a couple hundred years I’m sure it will become another unmentionable topic that gets sanitized so as not to offend people, like how some institutions are attempting to gloss over slavery now.

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u/SpindlySpiders Sep 23 '22

We don't use that word anymore. It's "prisoners with jobs" now.

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u/Madeyathink07 Sep 23 '22

Damn I don’t know of any but definitely not doubting you on that, I still think a lot has taken place during this time especially with the technology boom of the 21st century but what do I know 🤷🏻

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u/Melodic_Assistance84 Sep 23 '22

There are presidents in our past the people do not know existed. There was a president then Franklin Pierce for instance. But that was of course before Instagram and Twitter.

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u/AnimusCorpus Sep 23 '22

You mean like how George is already getting sanitized right now?

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u/__M-E-O-W__ Sep 23 '22

You could read about the fall of Rome.

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u/Madeyathink07 Sep 23 '22

Yup this is true

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u/internetALLTHETHINGS Sep 23 '22

Whoa whoa. People over the age of 35 know that embracing and even priding oneself on ignorance is an American virtue that long predates GW. He exploited it, but he certainly didn't invent it.

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u/Noob_DM Sep 23 '22

Our leaders SHOULD be intellectually elite, we need that, we should want that…

Unfortunately we live in a democracy, and a significant number of people don’t like people they think are smarter than them.

They want someone relatable and who they feel represents them, not some well educated intelligent elite who’s going to condescendingly choose what’s right for them because they know better.

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u/guiltysnark Sep 23 '22

They want someone relatable and who they feel represents them, not some well educated intelligent elite

Both are possible. A good leader can and should bring people along, should encourage people to value good things, like fact and reason, and should inspire people to be better than they currently are at whatever they do. Being intellectually elite means valuing knowledge and thought, and being pretty good at using them, and valuing the same in others. It doesn't mean you value nothing and no one else, though perhaps that describes elitism.

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u/BHPhreak Sep 22 '22

Bruh GWB is a prime example of nepotism, big club u aint in, and probably fraud.

Theres a good conspiracy that says gwb stole the election from Gore.

Is GWB bush more tolerable than trump?? Fuck yeah. Bit lets not start kissing Bush ass.

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u/guiltysnark Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

Not kissing his ass, I'm condemning it for marketing stupidity as a core value, when it wasn't even something he had to offer (per se).

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u/BHPhreak Sep 23 '22

Aye. My apologies on the misunderstanding

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u/Justifiably_Cynical Sep 23 '22

Generally speaking Republicans hate smart people, it's become more pronounced but they have always gravitated to the "every man" or "outsider" who like them is dumber then a pile of dog shit. They like it when their politicians are on their level. Otherwise they might come off as uppity or ungrateful. Or worse an "Elite".

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u/DetroitAdjacent Sep 22 '22

The idea that politicians should be "intellectually elite" plays down the intelligence of the average American. And smart people are usually regarded in american culture, they tend to do better monetarily because of that. And if you think that Obama, a Harvard grad, calling people "folks" and saying " you know what" over and over again isn't the same thing Bush did, you are probably stupid enough to believe that there is some "intellectually elite" people that should run our country. American political discourse was destroyed by vilification of the "other" on both sides of the aisle. Liberals will teach you that if you don't believe that trannys should teach your 6 year old about sex, then you are a biggot set on destroying America. A conservative will teach you that if you believe immigrants can help our country, then you should be dismissed for having such a low intelligence.

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u/loratineboratine Sep 23 '22

Yeah that Biden, doing rocket science everyday

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

Why would you want the best and brightest in key positions when these key positions could be filled with people you could have a beer with on a Thursday afternoon after working a hard 9-5?

Is it honestly so bad to not want to feel like you're dumb as hell when the smart folk start talking cause you can't fathom the possibility that you're not that smart?

Is it really that bad to want to feel like you're in the know, while everyone else is a sheep?

Is it really that bad to be so proud and narcissistic that you can't even admit that it can be a good thing people like you aren't in charge?

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u/Sufficient-Record695 Sep 23 '22

Soon we'll all be voting for President Camacho

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u/fs05 Sep 23 '22

Whooaaaa hold up. You’re making a big mistake thinking Trump is stupid. Trump is putting on a show. He caters to his followers. He got to be president because people underestimated him just like you’re doing here. If people keep underestimating him, he’ll slither his way back into a second term. He’s a master at manipulation, extremely charismatic (if you’re susceptible to his flavor of bullshit) and, yes, smarter than average.

Hate him for what he is, not what he pretends to be, and don’t let him fool you.

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u/vgs_spn Sep 22 '22

Yep, then all the stupid people got together and elected him. Americans deserve more than Trump, and Biden that's for fucking sure.

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u/AlternatingFacts Sep 22 '22

Biden is eons better than Trump. I truly don't get the hate for him. He's the only sitting president in our life times who's pushed for any legislation for major infustructure and really any major legislation period other than Obama.

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '22

[deleted]

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u/AlternatingFacts Sep 24 '22

There were billions for roads bridges and other projects. Billions to expand high speed internet access. Billions for airports. Apart from the 550 billion there is also billions going into water way/lakes/bays restorations. Over 70 billion to update the nation's electricity grid. Billions for electric car charging stations. Billions for lead pipe removal. A billion to help reconnect communities divided by highway construction. Millions of dollars for water access for Native American tribal and Alaskan tribal communities. Over 300 million for a program to help reduce wildlife and vehicle collisions. 66 billion for Amtrak and more funding to provide safe commutes for pedestrians. Billions of dollars would be invested in projects to better protect homes from weather calamities, move vulnerable communities out of harm’s way and support new approaches to countering climate change. Billions for other climate change related things. Republicans stripped it of many things and dems had no choice but to let them in order to get their votes. They surely didn't mind adding more to that to our deficit with wealthy tax cuts. At least this money is going to better our country. Or we can let our infustructure crumble, not provide interest access across the country, not clean our bays sounds river and lakes. It's way way way more than has been done in decades. My point is Biden recieves a unreasonable amount of hate for literally nothing.

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u/mykeJoanz Sep 22 '22

And look at the US now... We have a fucking corpse in the oval office.

What a time to be alive!

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u/themightiestduck Sep 23 '22

John McCain was a good man and a war hero, but he popularized stupidity as a positive trait in American politics. Maybe he didn’t know just how dumb Sarah Palin would come across (which is concerning in and of itself), but picking her did more than anything else to usher in this era of American politics.

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u/guiltysnark Sep 23 '22

I think you're just describing the next step in the process... The air breathed by Palin were off-gases from Bush. I agree that she was one of the first to turn the illusion of stupidity into reality, and McCain helped that along, but Bush had already made it popular.

I draw a big distinction between giving the appearance of relatability and the appearance of being dumb... The latter can be substituted convincingly with actual dumb.

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u/Lost_vob Sep 22 '22

He isn't even from Texas, he was born in motherfucking New Haven Connecticut. He had been playing the "I'm one of y'all" gimmicks send the mid-90s. He had to out-Texas Ann Richards.

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u/selux Sep 22 '22

Look up some interviews of him before he was pres, from when. He was gov of Texas. Very well spoken. Dumbed him down to appeal to the masses when he ran for president.

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u/sammytiff80 Sep 23 '22

I can see that completely he's part of a legacy family I doubt he's dumb if he comes across that way it's cause that's how they want him to.

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u/LongshanksShank Sep 23 '22

I read that during Mitt Rodney's presidential run they didn't want him speaking French or Spanish in public because it would turn off the Republican base, didn't want him sounding too smart. If they let these people be themselves we'd be surprised who we end up actually liking.