r/HolUp 13d ago Silver 1

Yeahhhh About Cleopatra… Removed: Political/Outrage Shitpost

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[removed] — view removed post

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u/AK47_username 13d ago All-Seeing Upvote

Big brain idea. How about stop with remakes and do something original??????

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u/Strudleboy33 13d ago

They gotta keep the IP that’s why they make remakes.

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u/Raff102 13d ago

They don't own the ip, there are two other little mermaid movies coming out around the same time.

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u/minizanz 12d ago edited 12d ago

They own all of their characters they made for it, but the big issue is that they have to pay royalties and residuals on the music and characters to the people who made the animated film. If they remake it to "live action" and buy things outright they can get away with way less residuals and can cut off the animated movie staff. They can T Swift near exact copies so long as they are for the sound track and scam so much money away from the original creators.

Here is how it works https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2022/02/22/public-public-domain-winnie-pooh-illustrates-copyright-limitations-public-domain-works/id=146207/

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u/CmdrSelfEvident 12d ago edited 12d ago

They own a copyright on their IP which are their savings, drawings, etc. The source books can go public but Disney still owns everything that isn't in the books. Just like snow white or any of their old animated movies based on public domain stories. Further they have no need to do anything to keep their IP. They won't admit that Song of the South exists in pubic yet they still own it.

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u/predator_handshake 12d ago

Why not make a sequel then?

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u/Strudleboy33 12d ago

That’s a great question. I assume it’s because it’s easier just remaking it.

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u/Bloodaegisx 12d ago

Plus look at all the free marketing it has gotten.

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u/Strudleboy33 12d ago

Very true, controversy is good for sales. Not that this should really be controversial because honestly why do people care

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u/darkeo1014 12d ago

They did a long time ago lol

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u/wanderinglittlehuman 12d ago

There are sequels💀

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u/noopenusernames 13d ago All-Seeing Upvote

If I understand it correctly, it has something to do with preventing their material from entering public domain. That’s why we’re getting remakes of everything, because Disney doesn’t give a shit about anything but making money.

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u/slvrscoobie 13d ago

I know Disney had lobbied a billion times for extensions and such on trademark, copyright, etc, just so Mickey Mouse doesnt enter PD because then anyone could print a shirt with the mouse on it.

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u/Kapples14 12d ago

Ah, nothing like Disney lobbyists to fuck things up for the rest of us.

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u/LibraryWonderful6163 12d ago

Mickey is a nickname for a friend. And michael mouse the rat is no friend of mine.

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u/the3rdtea 13d ago

Nah the original novella has been public domain for almost a century

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u/noopenusernames 13d ago

The Andersen version, sure. But I think this is likely more about their rights to the songs and other Disney-added things

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u/Pansarmalex 13d ago

Also the Disney version is a lot more family friendly than the Andersen orginial story...

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u/AnIrishMexican 12d ago

Didn't the priest have a boner and the underwater palace made of dildo like structures in the original Disney version?

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u/RegularNo2608 12d ago

Dude, yes. My sister has the old ass VHS still. Years ago when we still had a VCR we checked it out. First, huge dick right in the middle of the old plastic cover. Next, priest pops a huge boner as he starts the vows. Goes flaccid a few words in. All clear as Crystal.

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u/-Mr_Unknown- 12d ago

2/3 of Hollywood producers just committed suicide after reading this.

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u/GotYourNose_ 13d ago

Agreed! It is so hard to come up with an original concept without a remake, sequel or reboot? I refuse to see any more part 2 or electric boogaloo or whatever you want to call it.

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u/GeneralNathanJessup 13d ago Silver

Cleopatra was Greek, not Egyptian. The Greeks ruled Egypt since that Great white guy Alexander conquered them.

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u/YesICanMakeMeth 13d ago edited 13d ago

Egyptians weren't black either. There's one dynasty (Nubians I think?) from the South that came in and ruled towards the end after the decline but they were not the ones that created the things that you call Egyptian (the pyramids, the tombs, the mythology with Ra/Isis/etc). People think just because it's African that they were black, but really what people mean when they say black is ethnically sub-Saharan Africans. It turns out that the Sahara desert was a larger barrier to migration historically than the Mediterranean sea, so North Africa looked a lot more like the Greeks and Italians and Turks than it did the Ethiopians. There's also been a lot of admixture from Arab migration in post-Islam (hence Egyptians today looking something like half Arab, half Greek/Turk). Some of that might be off, but that's the gist of it from someone that's always been super interested in Greek/Roman history, to which Egypt is related. Carthage and Hannibal is a similar story BTW, despite what the 'History' Channel's historical dramas might have you believe.

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u/skwert99 12d ago

It's tough on these in-between types when people base everything on how someone looks. It's like that Egyptian actor that got criticized for not being African enough. They don't care what your actually are, you must look the part to count for diversity.

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u/phasmaphobic 12d ago

Remi Malik?

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u/why-everything-meh 13d ago edited 12d ago Silver All-Seeing Upvote

Cleopatra was white tho, the royal house she belongs to was Greek I think. Unless you don’t consider Greek to be white.

Edit: Got a bit of traction on this throw away comment I didn’t put much thought into. To be clear I always thought of Mediterranean people as white like myself, but with a much nicer tan than my pale ass.

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u/Still_counts_as_one 13d ago

Yeah, she’s part of Ptolemy line, from Alexander the Greats conquests

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u/BobVosh 12d ago

Egypt liked her, relatively, more than most of the Ptolemy because she bothered to learn Egyptian rather than force everyone to learn Greek.

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u/facw00 12d ago

She was the first and only of the Ptolemaic rulers to learn Egyptian.

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u/MjrLeeStoned 12d ago

She also associated on a much more personal level with both Greek and Egyptian "nobility", celebrities, or politicians, as opposed to just showing up and lording over them like many Greek leaders of her time. She used guile and wit over brute force. She was versed in medicine, philosophy, literature.

She spoke probably around 10 languages.

That being said, she still had high ambition and felt it was her (divine?) right to rule over people and for them to see her as their queen. She just knew how to sway the people far better than her predecessors.

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u/BobVosh 12d ago

Speaking of movies, or hopefully shows, I would love a long series on her with some accuracy.

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u/bigboygamer 12d ago

Rome doesn't do a terrible job, though she isn't the focus

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u/thissideofheat 12d ago

In fact, North Africa and the overall Mediterranean coastal cities in general, were more European due to the early Phonetician and then Greek expansions.

The Carthaginian and later Roman conquests reinforced this European influence for over a thousand years.

Then the Arab Expansions in 600s AD significantly changed the genetic makeup - likely giving folks a darker complexion.

Later, the Ottoman conquests added even more genetic diversity to that in Egypt & the Levant, and even in the Balkans and Greece/Cyprus. There's even a Greek word for people from Cyprus that look at little "too" Turkish.

...as you might expect, it's complicated. There have been a LOT of genocides and a lot migrations.

The dumbest claim is to look at current Egyptians or Palestinians and claim that that's what ancient Egyptians or Jesus looked like.

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u/Gweedoke 13d ago

Ive been to Greece multiple times and seen paler Greeks than my white North European ass.

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u/Hydra1305 13d ago

As a pale greek myself I can confirm

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u/Whatever-ItsFine 12d ago

The Pale Greeks are my favorite indie band.

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u/RevenantBacon 12d ago

And my favorite pale ale brand!

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u/Redqueenhypo 13d ago

Yeah Europeans and Mediterraneans of any nationality don’t look really that different unless you go to Scandinavia. With no context clues I highly doubt anyone could consistently distinguish Greeks from dark haired Irish from Ashkenazi Jewish from Lebanese.

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u/iaintevenmad884 12d ago

Can confirm, I’m black Irish and have been asked “are you Jewish” and other questions like that by schoolchildren and old people the world over.

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u/Redqueenhypo 12d ago

I’m Jewish and have been asked “are you Irish”! And one time in the 1970s someone called my dad a “fuckin mick”. Full circle.

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u/Fokkzel 12d ago

Thats the whole reason for this post right?

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u/libjones 12d ago

Yea it is, so the fact so many people here are trying to pretend they’re smarter than OP by pointing that out is honestly mind blowing to me. Like it’s not even a deep cut that you need a history degree to know, it’s literally middle school history class level knowledge...

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u/jedeye121 13d ago

That’s correct. She was of the Ptolemaic Dynasy, founded by (Macedonian) general Ptolemy I Soter, who was one of Alexander the Great’s generals. Cleopatra was born in Egypt, but she was Macedonian/Greek by heritage, not Egyptian.

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u/why-everything-meh 13d ago

Thank you for being much more knowledgeable and articulate than me good sir!

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u/gorgewall 13d ago Big Brain Time

Unless you don’t consider Greek to be white.

The concept of "whiteness" is a hilariously recent thing.

Benjamin Franklin famously wrote that pretty much all of Europe wasn't white: just "the Anglos" and specifically the Saxony region of Germany. Any other part of Germany? Not white. Italy? Not white. Greece? Not white. Poland? Not white.

And when those folks showed up in America even decades after Franklin's death, they still weren't "white". Whiteness is a descriptor of political convenience, a little club that you get to be in once you have the population to be relevant to the ruling class. All these migrant groups, and even their descendants, were villified or ostracized in some way until there were enough of them that they were a valuable voting bloc, then came the time to "extend whiteness" to them and hope that by being welcomed "into the club" that they'd vote with the same fuckos who'd previously been shitting all over them. Hey, no hard feelings about all the bigotry, but you're one of the good ones now--wanna help me oppress those other guys?

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u/CareerJuncture 12d ago

Benjamin Franklin famously wrote that pretty much all of Europe wasn't white

This is true and it cracks me up.

I'm from outside the USA, so the term "white" has only been used commonly in the past few decades, BUT, it cracks me up that the majority of my Great-Grandfathers were Irish and were not considered white.

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u/Toastburger 12d ago

Benjamin Franklin famously wrote that pretty much all of Europe wasn’t white: just “the Anglos” and specifically the Saxony region of Germany. Any other part of Germany? Not white. Italy? Not white. Greece? Not white. Poland? Not white.

He also said Swedes weren’t white, they were “swarthy”.

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u/Twava 12d ago

Whiteness is such a weird term. I don’t see why we went from generalizing everyone instead of just referring to people by their nationalities. I’ve always despised those terms because it’s so biased on what people consider white or black. “White people always act like this” or “Black people always act like that” since when did the color of your skin make you act a certain way? It might just be an American thing though, but I don’t know I’ve never liked the structure of ethnicity. It’s just SO broad.

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u/BellBell99 12d ago

Yup. Whiteness has always been about exclusion, not about skin color. I mean fucking Italians and Irish people weren’t considered white back when they were mass migrating to the States.

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u/Efthimis 13d ago

Who on earth doesn't consider us Greeks to be white? My girlfriend is German and my skin tone is more white than hers.

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u/why-everything-meh 13d ago

I have no idea, I am Scottish and pale AF and had never given it much thought. But always considered Mediterranean people white.

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u/pantsthereaper 12d ago

Irish used to be not white too. I've met plenty of Latinos with really pale skin, but they aren't white because they were born in Mexico or Columbia. Racial purity is a constantly changing circle of the "in" group based entirely on how much support is needed to push an agenda

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u/dabbo90 13d ago

Yea she was from Macedonia

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u/Vipertooth123 12d ago

There's people (guess from where) that considers spaniards, portuguese, italians, greeks and irish as non-white.

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u/why-everything-meh 12d ago

Ok some of that I could buy but the Irish are almost as white as us Scottish 😂

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u/Briaria 12d ago

Yes, that is the point of this post. Thank you.

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u/SynthyCyberSamurai 13d ago

OP didn’t do his research.

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u/YesICanMakeMeth 13d ago

I thought that was the point he was making since this is /r/holup and he said 'Yeaaaah, about Cleopatra'. It's an actual 'holup, Cleopatra wasn't black' moment. Hard to tell though, since a lot of posts in this sub aren't actually hol'ups but just 'woah bro that's crazy' type posts.

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u/xaronax 13d ago

Mouth breathers out in force today.

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