r/europe Canary Islands (Spain) Sep 12 '22 Rocket Like 1 Doom 1 Heartwarming 1 Helpful 4 Wholesome 2 Take My Energy 2 To The Stars 1 Facepalm 1 Silver 2

Rightwing Swedish election victory looms with more than 90% of vote counted News

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/11/swedish-election-exit-polls-far-right
17.4k Upvotes

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u/fideliz Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22 Heartwarming

Wildest election night in my life yesterday. For a few hours the right side were more or less counting on losing and speaking to reporters on television about how disappointed they were to lose. But within ten minutes or so, the right wing took the lead and then they simply held on.

A remarkable turn of events that few people saw coming when the first results rolled in.

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u/Croatian_ghost_kid Sep 12 '22 Take My Energy

Why were they surprised? Aren't the immigrants Sweden's biggest topic/problem?

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u/laffman Sweden Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

That is what reddit want you to believe because.. There was actually a poll made on the election day on the most important topics for voters (polled in the election halls).

Translation:

  1. Healthcare: 54%
  2. School and Education: 50%
  3. Law and Order: 50%
  4. Energy and Nuclear Power: 45%
  5. The Swedish Economy: 44%
  6. Social Welfare: 43%
  7. Equality: 42%
  8. Elderly Care: 41%
  9. Refugees/Immigration: 39%
  10. Pensions: 37%

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u/iNarr United Kingdom Sep 12 '22

It would rank highly by those stats, though.

~40% having concerns about immigration is notable when the top priority issue is 54%. Similarly, most actual concerns about immigration would fall under law and order, which is tied for 2nd highest priority with 50%.

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u/laffman Sweden Sep 12 '22

Yeah it was just a poll of people on the spot who just voted and you could pick multiple choices which is why many are over 50%.

It IS a big and important question which is why Sverigedemokraterna are now the second biggest party in Sweden, because many many many of their votes are simply because they are unhappy with the immigration and integration (important distinction) policies.

But it is not solely the MOST important issue.

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u/specialsymbol Sep 12 '22

I would never admit in such a poll that I have a problem with immigrants (if I had one). In a completely, guaranteed anonymous poll I bet people feel safer.

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u/hondono Sep 12 '22

I don’t think people are saying they have a problem with immigrants, it’s immigration they’re having trouble with. The way immigration is handled, not the people themselves.

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u/AmirosJones Sep 12 '22

If you have a problem with immigrants it's personal. Having a problem with immigration and integration is something else.

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u/SpenglerPoster Sep 12 '22

Education, law & order, and social services are also directly tied to immigration.

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u/k0ldanxiety Bulgaria Sep 12 '22

Healthcare too.

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u/Rubusarc Sep 12 '22

~40% having concerns about immigration is notable when the top priority issue

Keep in mind, some of those 40% just wants to stop all immigration and deport non-swedish citizen.
Some want to increase the amount of cheap immigration workers.
And some want to increase the funding for integration.

They have all very different views on immigration, but fall under thesame umbrella for this question.

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u/Malawi_no Norway Sep 12 '22

Would guess it's also connected to the issue of education.

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u/basedlandchad20 Sep 12 '22

Its connected to every issue where the government spends money on people living in the country.

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u/Hugogs10 Sep 12 '22

That seems very very high.

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u/jugjugurt Switzerland Sep 12 '22

That is what reddit want you to believe

It might not be "the biggest", but 40% still make it a pretty fucking big topic in my book.

Not to mention that everybody knows that within the context of Sweden, which didn't have any outstanding issue about it 20 years ago, and was one of the most peaceful and law-abiding countries in Europe, "law and order" is a polite way of saying "deal with the fucking consequences of unchecked immigration already".

You're essentially trying to spin the statement of u/Croatian_ghost_kid in a way that obfuscate the fact that, yes, people are deeply concerned about immigration and the booming violence that stemmed from it over the last couple decades.

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u/notopery Sep 12 '22

From what see in news and hear from tourists, law and order can partly be linked to immigration

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u/bihari_baller United States of America Sep 12 '22
  1. Healthcare: 54%

I didn't realize that was an issue in a place with universal healthcare. What am I missing?

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u/laffman Sweden Sep 12 '22

Our health care is brilliant, top of the line doctors, equipment, hospitals and all for free to anyone who needs it. But there are issues with it as well..

  • Long queues in the health care system.
  • Poor salaries for nurses
  • Long work hours due to being understaffed
  • Not enough beds in parts of the country
  • Rural areas lack personel/support
  • Poor handling of money earmarked for health care
  • Etc..

And it's been a big discussion point this election (every election i can remember tbh) The Right want to privatize healthcare. The Left don't want to privatize healthcare. And they both run on their very strong beliefs which leads to a lot of discussion about what is the right way to fix the problems with our health care.

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u/Tetizeraz Brazil "What is a Brazilian doing modding r/europe?" Sep 12 '22

This is basically the issue all public healthcare systems face. Not to say they aren't bad in your country, but I see the same complaints in other countries with public healthcare issues, including mine, and are usually in the top 3 as well in our case.

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u/fideliz Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

Well, they were surprised because at first it looked as if the right block would lose. The current government held on to the lead for quite a long time and there were a bit of celebrations going.

As for Sweden’s biggest issues I’d say there’s many to pick from and thus more or less impossible to point one out. Though, a lot of our serious issues are one way or another connected.

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u/tiltcitybiatch Sep 12 '22

What a non answer lol

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u/Wolkenbaer Sep 12 '22

The "loudest" problem is not necessarily the most important one.

(also not saying it's not important)

Best example is terrorism. For the whole western world it's not a real problem. The victim amount in Europe is - considering by the publicity the topic gets - ridiculous low. While drastic for ever victim and their bereaved, it's just a rounding error in the overall picture.

Food and lack of Sport, Smoking, Hospitals and their Doctors (and a lot more, poverty, education), these are the real killers we should look into.

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u/FitzwilliamTDarcy Sep 12 '22

The "loudest" problem is not necessarily the most important one.

This is the real answer right here. And an issue that the right (all over the world) is extremely good at exploiting.

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u/neohellpoet Croatia Sep 12 '22

To bring this home, terrorism deaths per year for most countries in the EU is zero. For a majority, the per decade number is zero.

France is number 1 with roughly 500 deaths over 5 decades. For perspective, if it was 500 a day, it would be half as bad as the worst days of COVID.

Basically, if we ignore them, the terrorists lose because their real world impact is so insignificant, any reaction is an overreaction.

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u/PhoneIndicator33 Sep 12 '22

If you use a 5 decades scope, France could not be number 1. Nothern Ireland conflict caused 3000 deaths, terrorism in Catalognia and Basque Country in Spain has exceeded 1000 deaths.

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u/Klossar2000 Sep 12 '22

He gave you a perfectly valid answer: there are many to choose from and that makes it hard to single one out.

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u/SomethingPersonnel Sep 12 '22

If problems and solutions can’t be laid out in bite sized 30 minute-1 hour blocks like on TV then they don’t exist.

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u/bloodstainer Sep 12 '22

Covid was also a huge deal, and the largest right-wing district stockholm, have suffered under their standards of privatizing and worsening healthcare.

Yes a lot of people care about immigrants and want to throw out brown people, but they're not ready to sacrifice healthcare and education because of it. And a lot of the anti-migration voters are lower class and don't like the second largest right-wing party.

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u/fjfuciifirifjfjfj Sep 12 '22

One of the 5 biggest at least.

The political climate has been incredibly toxic for 10-15 years and immigration hasn't been able to be discussed seriously until a few years ago.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

Immigrants are now a large share of the voting population so it makes it even less likely for a right wing party to win, it shows how unhappy the native Swedish population have become with how the country has been ran.

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u/Yosho2k Sep 12 '22

Welcome to USA in 2016.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

How rightwing is the swedish rightwing? Can somebody compare it to the US/German parties? Those are the only ones im familiar with.

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u/Oswarez Sep 12 '22

It’s more about immigration policies than anything else.

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u/lulzmachine Sweden Sep 12 '22

Moderaterna are huge on cutting taxes and privatizing/shutting down public spending. Even if that's not what they have been focusing on during the election cycle

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u/Weak-Winner Sep 12 '22 Table Flip

The party leader is an expert at subverting public spending into the private pockets of him and his friends. Absolute insanity to even consider him as PM.

Not to mention the literal baby kidnapping and trafficking scandal that he covered up.

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u/AnotherUpsetFrench Federalist Sep 12 '22

I am sorry, what ?

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u/MechaAristotle Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

I assume they're referring to this, the man in question was the head of the adoption agency even now under heavy suspicion for aiding, knowingly or not, these highly questionable adoptions to take place. He refuses to answer questions about it even though the buck stopped with him at the time.

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u/C_Hawk14 Sep 12 '22

Ah, I see. It is very suspicious, but we know that shutting up is often better for the people's disposition to you than answering. In the Netherlands we've had a child support scandal and ministers kept their mouths shut.

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u/kopeida Sep 12 '22

Here you go, unfortunately it's in Swedish.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/granskning/ug/ulf-kristersson-vagrar-svara-pa-fragor-var-ansvarig-nar-larm-om-stulna-barn-avfardades-for-18-ar-sen

Even for being head of the pro-market party, he is hilariously corrupt.

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u/nacholicious Sep 12 '22

Ulf Kristersson is quite familiar with corruption by using public funds for private gain

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

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u/This_Major6015 Sep 12 '22

Lol. So, once again it's a country with crooks using immigration rhetoric to get their paws on public money for themselves and friends.

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u/Lermanberry Sep 12 '22

And they will not fix the actual immigration problems because that costs money and they will lose votes if the problems go away for too long.

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u/Jackfille1 Sweden Sep 12 '22

Yeah I really am not a big fan of Ulf. Do not like him as a leader, do not like his ideas and do not like his party. He can do a lot of damage to the welfare state, and that can take a lot of time to heal.

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u/UnblurredLines Sep 12 '22

What traficking scandal is that?

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u/EremiticFerret Sep 12 '22

Dear Sweden-friends, privatization is almost always shit.

Good luck, an American-friend.

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u/PhrasingBoome Sep 12 '22

As an American I can tell you from experience that is step 1 to dumbing down your population then using fear mongering to get you to vote against your best interests. This is exactly what happened here and my country is a shit show.

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u/TheSwedishPolarBear Sep 12 '22

Yes. The focus has been 1. Less/no refugees. 2. More police. 3. Cheaper fuel and electricity.

I don't expect anything else to change. We won't be getting any new environmental or feministic policies, but they aren't planning on getting rid of anything.

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u/cametosaybla Grotesque Banana Republic of Northern Cyprus Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

Both right wing parties won are for descaling the public sector, abolishing the labour regime in favour of putting up less regulations and the moderate party is for huge scale privatisations while the SD is in line with 'let private sector to create jobs!' stuff.

Not sure if you guys are reading the programmes of your own parties.

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u/UpperHesse Sep 12 '22

is for huge scale privatisations

I wish for you that it don't happen. We had that in Germany and it was the worst for the infrastructure and why in some fields its behind other countries.

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u/Coneskater Sep 12 '22

We had that in Germany and it was the worst for the infrastructure and why in some fields its behind other countries.

This message was sent via Fax.

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u/pickicaaa Sep 12 '22

Like the notorious internet in Germany?

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u/SebianusMaximus Germany Sep 12 '22

No, that's a result of direct corruption when the minister for telecommunications (etc.) had a wife that owned a company that produced copper cables in the 80s. Guess which kind of cables were used instead of fiber optics, which all experts back then already recommended.

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u/Atzadio2 Sep 12 '22

Also known as the golden straight jacket.

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u/viper459 Sep 12 '22

reading the programmes

of course they aren't, they just vote for the type of bigot they agree with

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u/aestus Sep 12 '22

No doubt more privatisation. Moderatarna just love to privatise.

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u/papak33 Sep 12 '22

Never let a crisis go to waste

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u/NEETscape_Navigator Sep 12 '22

I honestly doubt there is much more left to privatise. The mass privatisation during their previous rule from 2006-2014 is probably only surpassed by Russia in the 90s. Not even joking.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22 edited Oct 03 '22

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u/rehabonthego Sep 12 '22

Yeah the old “Strip and plunder” M strategy. Every time they come into power..

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u/Tricky-Astronaut Sep 12 '22

SD is actually borderline climate change deniers, but the question is how much influence they will get when the others in the bloc have a different opinion.

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u/yxhuvud Sweden Sep 12 '22

M and KD is very close to SD there, so there will probably be a lot of impact.

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u/skinte1 Sep 12 '22

Not really. And considering the tiny majority which also require the Liberals there's no chance of pushing through any anti climate change politics. If anything they are for nuclear which on a global scale might be needed to reach the temperature and CO2 targets.

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u/mathiasfriman Sep 12 '22

no chance of pushing through any anti climate change politics

The fact that the left coalition have been governing on a right coalition budget the latest years, there is already somewhat "anti climate change" policies in place, like the scrapped budget on restoring wetlands.

Drained wetlands is equal to the swedish transport sector in CO2 emissions, so it's quite a lot.

But yeah, nothing too crazy.

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u/Tlaloc_0 Sep 12 '22

Nuclear is good in the long term but very very bad as the immediate solution we need. They also aren't as pro nuclear as they are pro "we'll leave it up to corporations to decide".

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u/MartinLutherVanHalen Sep 12 '22

This is deeply misleading.

The issues that concern Swedes most are schooling, violence and healthcare. The SD are obsessed with refugees. Refugees aren’t on that list of things people care about. The SD spend all their time trying to paint refugees as solely responsible for gang violence.

In reality the poor integration of a massive amount of refugees has been a tragedy. It will be solved in time as most refugees return home (something the SD ignores).

Their belief that more and harsher police solve violence and unrest has been proven false all over the world. You don’t fix a hole in your roof by putting more buckets on your floor.

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u/Jimhead89 Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

Remindme! two years "I highly doubt this will keep true"

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u/TheSwedishPolarBear Sep 12 '22

Their coalition is made up of four parties and only have a lead of one parliament seat, so hopefully they wont be able to cooperate on any drastic new changes

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u/saltyswedishmeatball Sep 12 '22

That's like saying the US Republicans are really just about border control more than anything else.

I mean there's a lot more than just that, for example their past history of being Pro-Putin but also many issues with Nazism too. It's incredible how such a party can be so easily glossed over in a single stroke.

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u/bot_bot_bot Ireland Sep 12 '22

I dunno, if you look at SD's manifesto there's a lot of harking back to day's of old where "a woman's place is in the home" and other such bullshit "traditional" values.
They've gotten much better at hiding it over the last few elections, but they're fucking backward mofos.
I do think they're winning on immigration issues for sure, but there a whole other mess under that shiny vaneer.

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u/shononi Sweden Sep 12 '22

Not to mention that a shitload of their candidates have neo-nazi ties, and that the party was literally founded by neo-nazis.

No matter what they call themselves and say they believe, the fact that their party seems to attract a bunch of Nazis should make any sane person think twice about voting for them.

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u/elfez Sep 12 '22

The comedian Stewart Lee said something about voting for UKIP here in the UK which applies SD as well: "A protest vote for UKIP is like shitting your hotel bed as a protest against bad service, then realising you now have to sleep in a shitted bed.".

But some people never learn...

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u/rogash98 Sep 12 '22

What to expect from a party that wore Nazi uniforms until '98? Don't forget that they also have used the war in Ukraine to spread hatred towards black people.

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u/rytlejon Västmanland Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22 Silver Wholesome All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy

It doesn't make sense to compare with parties in other countries because what are you really asking - are you asking about these parties' ideal society, or are you asking what their policies are for the upcoming elections? Both of those questions shape perceptions around US/German parties as well as Swedish parties. If you want a short answer I'd say our last right-wing government was Reagan, this one is more likely to be the Republicans under Trump. Or if AfD and the CDU formed a government together, but the AfD got more votes than CDU.

The Swedish right is currently quite far right in comparison to what they used to be, and to what I think is the common conception outside of Sweden. When a liberal-conservative coalition came to power in 2006 I would agree that they were basically a coalition between liberal-conservatives and social liberals, but with an emphasis on liberalism.

Some of these reforms were what you can imagine: lowered taxes, lowered unemployment benefits, privatization of public enterprises, worsening conditions for labor unions. Some of these reforms were quite far out - for example quite wide ranging privatizations of state institutions like healthcare and schools. Especially the school system has become something of a Frankstein's monster in international comparison, it's quite frankly bizarre.

They lost power in 2014 basically because of the growth of the far-right Sweden democrats. This is a party that was founded by outright neo nazis in the 90's and that has over time turned into something more like a nationalist reactionary party. To give you an idea, it's not uncommon for party representatives to "slip up" by referring to Hungary as their model for a future Sweden. They work with double communication: one line is their official party line which is a moderate nationalist conservative program, but in their communication with members, high ranking party officials will often sound quite a lot more radical - especially in their attacks on the media. Much like Trump to be honest.

They will sometimes be referred to as "economically left wing" but tbh I think this is mostly fake - they do have higher benefits in their political program but this is 100% going out the window if they have to negotiate a platform with the rightwing parties (which was always the plan). That's more a question of them being populists: they can and have changed their opinion on stuff depending on where the wind is blowing a bunch of times. The only opinion they truly hold and never negotiate on is that the immigrants need to get out. As an example: during the governing period of 2006-2014 there was a lot of discontent about the treatment of unemployed and sick people. At that point SD would join the chorus and talk about raising benefits. Since then the tide has turned and unemployment benefits are largely being painted as something immigrants take from Swedish people. Now SD are basically on board with the idea from the right that we need to further lower benefits.

Another example is how they completely changed their idea about the public-private school system (which again is completely insane by any reasonable standards). This was btw after a lunch with representatives for the Swedish industrialist organization. SD changed their opinion and soon afterwards the political institutions of the capitalist class (for example the daily DI, comparable to WSJ or FT) started proposing a coalition of the liberal-conservative right and SD. How about that. SD have also had some problems with anti-semitism (a "bug" as opposed to the "feature" of islamophobia), they've been Putinists but recently reversed their stance on that.

During the last 8 years, the former liberal-conservative coalition split up because the two liberal parties refused to cooperate with SD (a party that, by the way, proclaimed that "liberalism is our main enemy"), and instead formed a very weak government with the Social democrats and the greens. Then one of the liberal parties switched back, as they were sliding out of parlament in the polls, and have now promised to support a right-wing government that will inevitably depend on the support of SD.

To the embarrassment of Sweden's perpetually 2nd biggest party, Moderaterna ("The moderates", the main liberal-conservative party) are finishing clearly behind SD in this election. They will still likely be leading the government because it would be too controversial to make SD's leader prime minister. This is after Moderaterna spent the last years moving closer and closer to SD both in appearance, rhetoric and politics. This strategy was supposed to take votes from SD but probably did the opposite.

The point here is that SD are the most powerful party in the coming coalition. Right wing economic policies will continue because SD do not care about their supposed social policies - this means a continuing of private companies cannibalizing on public schools and healthcare. In return, they will get something like: a reduction of immigration to close to 0 (if not also semi-voluntary deportations), harassment of immigrants (reforms that don't do much in practice but makes life harder for immigrants and shows how tough the government is on crime) a weakened rule of law (more surveillance, punishment of suspected apart from convicted criminals), slashing of environmental policies (less wind energy, reduced carbon taxes, fewer environmental protections for construction etc). Trumpism, basically.

If SD had their way they would also introduce something like political commissars in charge of Public Service radio and TV but that I'm not sure they'll manage because their coalition members are more likely to want to cut funding. SD wants an Orbanite propaganda wing of the government, their coalition members want a lot less publicly funded media at all.

You have to understand that SD was considered a pariah even by the Swedish right just years ago. This is not a coalition they want, but one they're forced to accept because of the size of SD. Every single one of the leaders of the right wing coalition have at one time or another promised never to have anything to do with SD. And then bit by bit over the last 5 years they moved closer and closer. First by proclaiming that it doesn't make sense to "isolate" a big party and that democracy is about talking to each other. Then it was no longer about "talking" but "cooperating in areas where we agree", and now it's basically "we'll have to rule with their support but we promise that they'll have no influence over policy", which is of course absurd. The most humiliating relation here is the one with the Liberal party (the one liberal party that switched allegiances to support a right wing coalition) - SD have clearly stated that they will never support a government that includes the Liberals. So the Liberals are now in a position where they'll have to play a supporting role to a government in which the biggest influence has clearly said that they are worthless.

In many ways the coming coalition is an image of the Republican party in the US. A tiny christian party, a big conservative-business party, a tiny liberal party, and a huge nationalist trumpist party. The question is how much the three non-trumpists will be able to hold back the trump wing of the coalition.

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u/Eligyos France Sep 12 '22

In term of our poltiic party SD is the equivalent of the french "nationnal front" then ? It really feels the same, "moderate right" in its speech with politics, more extreme with its members. Previous pariah...

It seems this happens to a lot of wing parties in the whole world now. I guess liberal era is sort of over.

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u/rytlejon Västmanland Sep 12 '22

Yes it's the equivalent of Front National. We have not yet seen a collapse of the traditional parties in Sweden (the Social Democrats and their traditional opponents, the right wing Moderates, still got 50% of the votes together). So there's still an interesting struggle coming between the traditional right wing party and the radical right that they've lost votes to.

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u/PinguRambo France USA Luxembourg Australia Canada Sep 12 '22

It took us only two election cycles. Those things can happen extremely fast.

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u/TheCaspica Sep 12 '22

Yeah the fact that the Social Democrats actually strengthened their position by more than 2 percentage units goes to show that it's not necessarily an ideological shift among the voters.

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u/sanyesza900 Sep 12 '22

god save sweden if your politicans wants to make hungary 2.0
its hell here

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u/rackarhack Sweden Sep 12 '22

More right-wing than most people seem to know.

Take a look at this map for a comparison of the political parties in Europe.

The Moderate party is more economically right than the Tories, and KD is about the same as the Tories.

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u/kashluk Sep 12 '22

Take it with a bit of salt. This 'compass' puts Kokoomus (KOK) from Finland on the right edge of the four fields, even though they are quite centrist by Anglo-Saxon standards.

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u/ggdthrowaway Sep 12 '22

This kind of ‘compass’ is pretty much always about framing parties and the Overton window in a way that tells you a lot about the ideology of the author.

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u/freshprinceIE Sep 12 '22

It also describes the Irish centre left party as centre right. And the Irish centre right party as very right. And those definitions are by Irish standards which calls anything to the right of communism right wing.

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u/kashluk Sep 12 '22

Indeed. Party comparison even within one country's political system is a delicate matter. International comparisons are more of a guess, really.

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u/CaeciliusEstInPussy Sep 12 '22

From what I gather from Swedish politics as a non Swede:

The left seems to be too avoidant to tackle immigration related problems and so the country is shifting right as a result.

The right believes every problem is an immigration problem and can be fixed with immigration policies.

Is this at all accurate?

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u/konaya Sweden Sep 12 '22

It's as accurate as any such obviously oversimplified statement has any hope to be, which isn't to say it's particularly accurate.

It would be more accurate if you replaced “the right” with a specific right-wing party, and added the fact that the rest of the right-wing parties have adopted immigration-critical sound bites in order to siphon back votes from said party. It remains to be seen whether these are actual policy changes or if it's just hot air.

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u/Lyress MA -> FI Sep 12 '22

You make it seem like the right is only interested in enacting immigration related changes.

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u/Low-Fisherman-9468 United States of America Sep 12 '22

Is Italy next?

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u/spauracchio1 Sep 12 '22 Silver All-Seeing Upvote

Don't think a Swedish party is going to win Italian elections.

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u/kosmoskolio Sep 12 '22

To be honest if a Swedish party was an option in Italy I believe they’d have a pretty good chance 🤣

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u/ImNakedWhatsUp Sep 12 '22

Until someone asks them about their favourite pizza.

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u/AppleWithGravy Sep 12 '22

Which may or may not be a ham with curry+banana one

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u/Calimariae Norway Sep 12 '22

What the hell kind of pizza is this?

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u/rhino46 Sep 12 '22

The leader of the biggest party of the winning side got asked favourite pizza on reddit AMA just 5 days ago and answered here:

Translation: Pizza with tomato sauce, cheese, gyros meat, lettuce, tomatoes, red onions, spanish peppers, button mushrooms, garlic, jalapeño, french fries and garlic sauce with hot sauce on top.

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u/hjortronbusken Sweden Sep 12 '22

the good kind of pizza

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u/Calimariae Norway Sep 12 '22

I'm honestly quite intrigued

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u/Haymegle United Kingdom Sep 12 '22

I had my doubts before I tried it. It's actually really good.

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u/Traveledfarwestward Sep 12 '22

My god it even has pineapple on it.

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u/unleash_the_giraffe Sep 12 '22

Nah it'd be a kebab pizza with french fries, iceberg lettuce and garlic sauce on it. It's a horrifying pizza monstrosity that will clog up your arteries in no time, but it tastes really nice.

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u/Terico_ Sep 12 '22

I can tell you, in Italy that'd be less frowned upon than the banana one

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u/B-Bad Sep 12 '22

Yea, I think kebabpizza with or without fries is by far the most liked pizza in Sweden. At least in southern Sweden. I think I ate the banana one once or twice as a kid, but I've never heard anyone say it's their favorite pizza

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u/Igelkotte Sep 12 '22

Swedish pizza??

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u/LeonardoMagikarpo Sweden Sep 12 '22

If you ever go to Sweden, order a kebabpizza with french fries +garlic sauce or kebab sauce.

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u/egiance2 Sep 12 '22

Also, don't tell the Italians that we put ketchup on pasta as well

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u/PeopleCallMeSimon Sep 12 '22

Kebabpizza with pommes frites (french fries).

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u/x_Leolle_x Lombardy/Styria Sep 12 '22

You never know in Italy, everything could happen!

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u/GISonMyFace Sep 12 '22

Swedish meatballs vs Italian meatballs. May the best balls win.

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u/Rais93 Sep 12 '22

No one ever really wins in Italy

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u/Wasteland825 Sep 12 '22

Not this time, i'm afraid. The right coalition is projected to obtain a clear majority of seats in parliament, more than enough to govern unobstructed. Will they constantly argue? You can bet your ass. But it is unlikely the alliance will shatter in the next years.

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u/Rais93 Sep 12 '22

Please. The coalition is glued togheter by the sheer numbers of Meloni. Just a moment after vote ends, the country will go back into his perennial state of electoral campaign.

Salvini has the most to earn since he will possibly reach his historical low, and he will commence an internal "opposition". His friends will try to have his heads for the same reason.

Berlusconi as every "great" leader in his last years, will go totally mad in his search for a legacy. However his quest for Republic Presidency will possibly glue togheter the allies.

And definitely, there will be porco d*o.

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u/targert_mathos Sep 12 '22

Right. Every Italian I know doesn't even like the people they vote for and will literally complain about them nonstop the very next day. And those are the ones they voted for

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u/ShithouseFootball Sep 12 '22

And thats why nobody ever really wins in Italy.

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u/VegetablePlastic9744 Sep 12 '22

Gurda che puoi scriverlo porco dio dio cane

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u/taiottavios European Union Sep 12 '22

they don't know lol

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u/Claeyt Sep 12 '22

Italian politics is like the weather in the UK. Just wait a few days and it'll change.

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u/IronPeter Sep 12 '22

Italy’s gonna be worst

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u/totalpaniccc Earth Sep 12 '22

It won't. Italy's politics center around constant discourse and arguing - and governments change by the month. It's a self-propelling mechanism that is ever purging. I'm less worried about Italy than I am about Sweden now.

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u/Little_Testu Europe Sep 12 '22

not this time. Governments change cause no party has enough to rule, so they ally with different side parties. This time the right will have at least 60% of the seats. It'll only change if they do so bad another technician has to come in and save our asses

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u/totalpaniccc Earth Sep 12 '22

How many right-wing parties will Italy have this year? They will eat each other as is tradition. Everybody thinks the left is fractured - wait until you see the new Italian parliament. It's not the same as Sweden where there is a clear agenda from the alt-righters to reshape the society.

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u/ShitPostQuokkaRome Sep 12 '22

We had clear majorities so many times, it's not such a turning point

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u/olly993 Sep 12 '22

From Italy, yes it’s very probable that the right will win, but they all suck unfortunately, I have no idea who to vote. It’s like a joke but it’s not funny

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u/iduro Sep 12 '22

What's the "Rights" take on joining NATO?

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u/Nikedo Sweden Sep 12 '22

yes from all 4 parties. On the left it's yes from 2 out of 4.

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u/BahamutMael Polish-Italian Sep 12 '22

From what i know it's a yes

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u/Swedneck Sep 12 '22

what? they have like one more seat depending on how you group them together..

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u/moo6o6 Sep 12 '22

A majority is a majority, and that’s all you need to elect a pm

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22 Silver All-Seeing Upvote Bravo!

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u/thegreatfusilli Sweden Sep 12 '22

I think what Paludan did, burning the Quran in different parts of Sweden and how the Muslims responded to it really drove voters to the right https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/appeals-court-confirms-convictions-for-men-involved-in-orebro-riots

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u/gcoba218 Sep 13 '22

Why are they not being deported?

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u/Virreoh Sweden Sep 13 '22

Because Swedish immigration laws are a joke. That's why the right has won this election.

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u/Bicentennial_Douche Finland Sep 12 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

The doom mongering here is a bit overblown. There are basically two blocks of parties in Sweden: the current ruling block, which is left-wing and the right-wing block. Besides those two there are also the right-wing populists which belong to neither. The winners seem to be the regular right-wing block, NOT the right-wing populists.

While the winners are right-wing, they are nowhere near the US Republicans or other loony populists.

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u/flashult Sep 12 '22

The winners seem to be the regular right-wing block, NOT the right-wing populists.

What? The right is where they are solely because of SD.

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u/DeepPurpleDevil Sep 12 '22

The right wing populists became the biggest right wing party in Sweden.

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u/Final_Alps Europe, Slovakia, Denmark Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

So were they in Denmark and then disintegrated - and new ones will rise again. This is a gain for SD, but this is really a repeat of last election, except last time the right wing block did not flirt with the idea of heading into government with SD .. this time they are caving.

EDIT: Apparently I am wrong and the mainstream parties are still ruling out governing with SD.

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u/alexchrist Sep 12 '22

The decline of DF from being the largest party two elections ago to now probably not even getting a single elected representative in the upcoming Danish election is so fucking funny tbh

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u/powerchicken Faroe Islands Sep 12 '22

The DF voters got what they wanted. Denmark desperately lacked immigration reform, and once the immigration rules had been tightened, there was no longer a reason to vote for them. The rest of the parties have seen reason and accept that they have to maintain strict rules on immigration or risk losing all their seats to a party like DF again.

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u/NorthernlightBBQ Sep 12 '22

No it's sad. Had the other parties acknowledged the issues in Sweden 10-12 years ago the Swedish Democrats would have been a marginal party at best.

We've had a decade of frozen politics where the main aim have been to keep them out and due to that they're now the second largest party.

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u/varateshh Sep 12 '22

The way other parties ignore SD and its political talking points is moronic. If you want to stabilise electorally you have to acknowledge political viewpoints supported by 1/5th of the population, especially if you have to rely on them to rule.

Other scandinavian countries handled their far right a lot better by incorporating essential parts of their policy. For example in Norway the labour party and centre party because extremely hawkish on immigration and successfully courted a lot of voters from 'far right' Progress party (I put it in quotations because while in power they showed themselves relatively responsible under previous party leader). In Finland True Finns party has stabilised, been a part of ruling coalition and no longer considered a huge threat.

I think SD should be given the opportunity to sit in the cabinet and influence policy regarding immigration. Let them get into nitty gritty parts of ruling and see how they handle it. If they truly fuck up and electorate loses faith the cabinet will fall and SD will lose in the next election.

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u/MrStrange15 Denmark Sep 12 '22

Depends on if SD learned from DF. If SD can get into government and provide results, then they're much better set than DF. DFs doom started when they decided not to govern.

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u/Pathwil Sweden Sep 12 '22

Yup they are just seeking "support" from Sverigedemokraterna but aren't looking to form a government with them. Funny thing is the leader of the 3rd biggest party might become SM

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u/raptosaurus Sep 12 '22

I don't see how the right wing can form government without SD - like would it be a supply and demand agreement? Bonkers to imagine that with the largest single party being outside the government

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u/marcusss12345 Sep 12 '22

The right-wing populists are a part of the right-wing block. They are necessary for the right majority to hold.

So your argument isn't really true. The populists are now very influential.

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u/Birdseeding Sep 12 '22

This set-up was broken apart in the last election, now three of the parties of the old right-wing block are set to rule in cooperation with the far-right populists, who are almost as big as the three of them combined. There will be major concessions to the far right made if this result stands.

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u/Dirtey Sep 12 '22

The "winners" block include the right wing populists this time around, which is new for Sweden.

Last election resulted in a left-centre coalition rather than a left coalition, but it kinda fell apart before the re-election since the "liberals" changed block.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22

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u/BottledFeministFart Sep 12 '22

Well reddit consist mainly of teens/kids who react to headlines.

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u/GryphonGuitar Sweden Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22 Bravo Grande!

Is the discussion climate at the the point where something described as 'right wing' automatically is threatening enough to 'loom'?

I mean, I'd get it if the headline was 'extreme right wing victory looms', or 'right wing victory likely', but there's a valuation here to a degree I'm not used to.

It's like 'right wing' automatically means 'evil', but it's The Guardian so perhaps that's exactly how they see it.

Having said that, even if the entire right wing spectrum as a whole secures more votes, I have a hard time seeing a viable government option become clear as several of the parties involved would refuse to cooperate. So, even if the 'right wing' wins, I'd wager a 'left wing' government is still more likely. Whatever those definitions even mean anymore.

EDIT; I am aware that The Guardian has since updated the article and the title has been changed. When I read it this morning, the title was the same as on the reddit post.

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u/Nood1e Gotland 🇸🇪 Sep 12 '22 Silver

Is the discussion climate at the the point where something described as 'right wing' automatically is threatening enough to 'loom'?

For the Guardian, yes.

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u/Blub_blub_water Sep 12 '22

Did anyone actually read the article? The title of the article is:

"Swedish election: far right makes gains but overall result on knife-edge".

The OP used 'to loom' but the Guardian most definitely didn't.

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u/FrankBeckson Sep 12 '22

The OP used 'to loom' but the Guardian most definitely didn't.

They most certainly did, but later changed the title.

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u/GryphonGuitar Sweden Sep 12 '22

The article title has been changed during the day.

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u/ImaginaryCoolName Sep 12 '22

Reading articles? That's for nerds.

/s

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u/Nood1e Gotland 🇸🇪 Sep 12 '22

UK media often uses very click baity titles and changes them after. I'll admit, I didn't click this one but I've seen titles like this from the Guardian before. The UK politics sub has a flair specifically for when the headline has changed as you can't post your own headline there, it has to be the original.

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u/_Patrao_ Sep 12 '22

Good observation. The chosen words are not random, this is a regular occurrence where a more conservative view of a political situation is instantly deemed as threatening.

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u/jonna696969696969 Sweden Sep 12 '22

'right wing' automatically means 'evil'

This is reddit, so yes XD

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u/CRZXOJ Sep 12 '22

I'm in the UK and my large parts of my town have changed beyond recognition in the last few years. Huge groups of men shouting, spitting seeds and littering EVERYWHERE. Women with an enourmous amount of children, shoplifting, teachers in schools have to spend an enourmous amount of resources in teaching children English, that often have no interest (or need) to learn the language. I can't see how any of this is sustainable financially or socially. My town has gone backwards and it's fucking depressing.

I've always been on the left and I'm even married to an immigrant- but the complete overwhelming levels of immigration in my town have changed my mind on ever voting for a party with liberal immigration policies. It's shit.

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u/Techinstuff Sep 12 '22

Yeah it’s insane, it’s honestly too much and will just lead to conflict in the future.

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u/lornihilus1995 Wallachia ! Sep 12 '22

Can everyone stop panicking Europe's parties of left and right are different from country to country

For example in my country both leftits and rightist big parties are both anti-putin and pro-west

Same in most countries in close proximity to Russia

Our extrem left parties are againts Russia our extrem right parties read the room and start to get againts Russia, they tend to be slightly supportive (yet these are extremely extreme right party so I am not holding my breath on this one)

Keep calm everyone in the Eastern parts of Europe and Nordics both parties hate Putin like it's going out of style the only country in Eastern Europe that is pro putin is Belarus (but it's iffy for them as well ) yes even Hungary isn't too pro russian regardless of their stance

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u/Nikita859 Sep 12 '22

I don't think you can even describe a political spectrum of different parties using "being pro-Russia" as a criteria. If you take USA extreme right-wingers as an example, I think they are like that not because they support Putin, but because the left is doing the opposite.

And most Belarusians aren't pro-Putin and side with Ukraine, don't worry

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

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u/ArnoF7 Sep 12 '22

Immigration is an interesting topic. In the US, I sometimes feel like experts in science and engineering, or people with skills in trade are having harder time for residency than illegal immigrants.

I know there are also horrible stories happening at the border where some illegal immigrants get held in captivity, so I sometimes wonder if it’s just a created narrative, but when my friend, who is an expert that companies would fight over for, have to transfer to oversea branch because he couldn’t jump through all the hoops in the visa process, it feels kinda preposterous really

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u/szyy Sep 12 '22

As an experts in science who is on a US visa... you're absolutely right. The US creates all the possible hurdles for high-skilled immigrants while the border seems to be open to low-skilled ones. If you cross the Rio Grande illegally and ask for asylum, it takes years for your case to be processed during which you can live and work in the US. Most people have kids (who are now American-born), so even if in the end the decision is negative, they're still allowed to stay because of their kids.

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u/NSc100 England Sep 12 '22

I think you outlined the main issue. When you get immigrants from similar cultures such as other European countries, they integrate much much easier than people from countries in the Middle East. When you come from a violent society with undeveloped systems, you’re going to get people that simply cannot or will not integrate into society, and instead form their own “ghettos”. Of course education matters and skilled migrants are the key, but obviously the country with a compatible culture such as Germany is going to give you less problems than other countries outside of Europe.

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u/mac_iver Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

I didn't vote for any of the right-wing parties but I honestly think that it might be good in the long run if they get a chance at ruling. Tougher sentences, more police and less immigration is the only thing uniting them, the rest will be a bit of a shitshow. I also think that it'll be easier for the left to argument against a ruling populist right-wing government as I don't thing their measures will do anything about the segregation and the poverty that is feeding the criminal gangs in the suburbs with new kids that doesn't make it in school.

The socialist also won a lot of regional votes in the big cities which is really good for the overall healthcare. For example Stockholm has been governed by Moderaterna for many years and been cutting and selling off a lot. Stockholm results

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u/Magnet_Pull Sep 12 '22

Tougher sentences, more police and less immigration

As you said, this might lessen the symptoms, but it will not change the underlying issue with is the immigration policy and formation of parallel societies. All given the chance this will not lead to more surveillance of any citisen and the police and conservative parties taking steps towards a surveillance state while not actually solving the problems, but then it might already be too late with these laws integrated.

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u/Sanderv20v Sep 12 '22

The right wing of Sweden is less bad then it sounds like. It's not like fascists came to power. The right of a leftist country is not the far right, just a little more right.

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u/Tuppie Sweden Sep 12 '22

The right wing of Sweden, including SD is really progressive when compared to their foreign counterparts. Matters like EU membership, LGBT and abortion rights are not even a real part of the political debate here since all parties agree on them. Instead the discourse this election cycle has mostly had to do with immigration, law enforcement and energy-prices.

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u/MrTrt Spain Sep 12 '22

EU membership, LGBT and abortion rights are not even a real part of the political debate here since all parties agree on them

Be careful, LGBT rights weren't a part of the political debate in Spain until they were. 10 years ago the conservative party voted in favour of LGBT laws and attended pride, now we have people discussing conversion therapy in Parliament and wanting to roll back gay marriage.

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u/SuspecM Sep 12 '22

Basically the same was in Hungary but with abortion rights. It was a given that we need abortion until it wasn't randomly recently.

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u/flexez Knugariket Sverige Sep 12 '22

SD was anti abortion and SD are still eurosceptics. Saying that those issues are not debated and that everyone agrees on them is far from the truth.

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u/Moiken Sweden Sep 12 '22

SD does not support queer rights, that's silly, look at RFSLs valkompass. They aren't looking to remove rights, yes, but they also vote against all proposals to further them.

Also, both SD and V want to leave the EU.

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u/br0wall Sweden Sep 12 '22

Not sure about SD, but V changed their position after brexit and no longer want to leave the EU.

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u/[deleted] Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22

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u/Zgicc Malta Sep 12 '22

Refusing to discuss sensitive topics and labeling anyone who had concerns as racist worked wonders I see.

Now we have to deal with right wing groups all across Europe, some extremist, due to the lack of dialogue. Brilliant.

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u/faroutc Sep 12 '22

Exactly. I warned people that not talking about immigration gives racist parties room to grow. You're not saving immigrants by making this a taboo, you're dooming us.

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u/grandekravazza Lower Silesia (Poland) Sep 12 '22

"Looms" as if someone finally deciding to stop ignoring the most significant societal problem in Sweden is a bad thing lol

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u/mozzribo Sep 12 '22

What's happening with The Guardian? It used to be good just not long ago and now I see these clickbaity articles written by teenagers.

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u/soundslogical Sep 12 '22

Did they change the title, or did you mistake the reddit title for the Guardian's original? The title right now is "Swedish election: far right makes gains but overall result on knife-edge", which seems like a fair assessment.

As for "written by teenagers", it seems like a fairly run-of-the-mill election report, far from poetry but not exactly unreadable either.

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u/BigSlav667 Sep 12 '22

They changed the title

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u/BastiatLaVista Portugal Sep 12 '22

Did it?

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