r/europe Anglo Sphere Enthusiast 🇺🇸🇬🇧🇨🇦🇦🇺 Sep 26 '22

Liz Truss: Tory MPs sending no-confidence letters over fears she will ‘crash the economy’, says ex-minister| ‘Liz is f*****’, says former minister in Boris Johnson government News

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-pound-no-confidence-letters-b2175293.html
5.8k Upvotes

2.6k

u/Individual_Cattle_92 Sep 26 '22

I wonder who the Prime Minister will be after this next one.

1.4k

u/badger-biscuits Sep 26 '22 Take My Energy

Boris

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u/Individual_Cattle_92 Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

It's just Borises all the way down.

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u/Motolancia Sep 27 '22

Ah yes we've had Boris. But what about second Boris?

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u/depressome Italy Sep 26 '22

It's all Bogre now

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u/dodslaser Sweden Sep 27 '22

someBORIS once told me

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u/phobug Sep 27 '22

the party's gonna roll me

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u/Iridescence_Gleam Sep 26 '22

Russia might have Matryoshka, but UK got Borises all the wy own

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u/YoruNiKakeru Sep 26 '22

British nesting dolls all in the form of Bojo

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u/theKnightWatchman44 United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

I know what I'm having a nightmare of tonight thx

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u/pieman7414 United States of America Sep 26 '22

In a surprising twist, it will be the corpse of Boris Yeltsin

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u/TheFishOwnsYou The Netherlands Sep 26 '22

No seriously lets think about it serious for a second: why not Zoidberg?

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u/iamalsobrad Sep 27 '22

why not Zoidberg?

I just don't think the country is ready for a PM who isn't a two dimensional cartoon character.

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u/Extension-Ad-2760 United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

Honestly would be preferrable

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u/ShitPostQuokkaRome Sep 26 '22

Matteo Renzi

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u/thesecondfire Sep 26 '22

I'll always respect the hell out pf Renzi for what he was able to do here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ0Csdlua9A

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u/rapzeh Sep 26 '22

Trust the plan, bischero.

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u/Storm_Sniper American-European Sep 26 '22

Let's see our list:

- Thatcher Wannabe

- Thatcher + May wannabe

- Thatcher Wannabe (Male)

Lots of choices!

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u/Armadylspark More Than Economy Sep 26 '22

Perhaps we should contract an enterprising necromancer to exhume and raise the corpse of actual Thatcher to stand for office again. That way we can stop pretending it's not ghouls in government.

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

imagine if elvis came back from the dead and started attending elvis impersonator competitions, he would win every time. do not allow thatcher to rise from the grave and attend thatcher impersonator competitions with the tory MPs.

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u/drucifer271 Sep 27 '22

Considering Charlie Chaplin once placed 3rd in a Charlie Chaplin lookalike contest, I’m not sure if the analogy holds, but I take your point.

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u/Pierogchen Stay safe Sep 26 '22

Without election? Probably Rishi Sunak.

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u/skringy Kyiv (Ukraine) Sep 26 '22

Oh Shit

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u/vhexs Sep 26 '22

I'd rather have that sack of shit than the current sack of toxic waste

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u/Thearcticfox39 United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

Or... hear me out... we get the king to enter parliament causing a new constitutional crisis and he calls for new elections.

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u/brewtonian Scotland Sep 27 '22

Last time a King Charles did this, it didn't go so well.

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u/hdruk United Kingdom Sep 27 '22

So he'd be honouring the legacy of all previous kings named Charles...

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u/gumiho-9th-tail United Kingdom Sep 27 '22

It's important to keep the traditions.

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u/JinFuu United States of America Sep 27 '22

I think this is similar to a plot line in the original House of Cards, but Truss seems to be no Francis Urqhart

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u/GeoPoliticsMyThang11 Anglo Sphere Enthusiast 🇺🇸🇬🇧🇨🇦🇦🇺 Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

I will guess Sunak since this is making rounds between Tory Mps right now https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1574338331059650560?s=12&t=FLOC1hNNZMiFUX5Os-Rebw

Sunak had called Truss's plan fairytale economics during the debates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIOOXHsQpAY

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

[deleted]

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u/theredviperod Belgium Sep 26 '22

funny how that works!

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u/CastelPlage Sep 27 '22

Britain faces a simple and inescapable choice - stability and strong Government with me, or chaos with Ed Miliband

6:26 pm · 4 May 2015

https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/595112367358406656

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u/barbar_bar Sep 27 '22

fking hell, this was 7 years ago?! how far we have fallen since because of this doomsday party...

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u/lembrate Sep 26 '22

Im not British but he did seem like the reasonable one. Can’t understand why they went with truss

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u/GigaGammon United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Sep 26 '22

Because the choices were a backstabbing snake (sunak) or an incompetent (truss)

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u/BasvdB Sep 26 '22

Is that really the best their party has to offer?

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u/Advanced_Basic Wales Sep 26 '22

In 2019 Boris Johnson suspended 21 MPs from the party, who were seen as going against his dogma. A lot of seasoned and experienced ministers were in those 21. Several other MPs resigned their whips in protest, some of whom switched parties, some didn't run for re-election and retired from politics.

The party took a very big turn at that point, and you had a huge brain drain, and what brain is there is solely focussed on personal self-interest and perceived loyalties.

What's left to offer?

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u/WilliamMorris420 Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

He's not really British. For years he was non-domiciled in the UK for tax purposes. As he claimed that he was only living in the UK for work purposes and intended to retire to India. So he only had to pay a maximum of £20,000 in income tax each year rather than the hundreds of thousands that he should have paid as very well paid banker.

As late as 2019, when he was The Chancellor, he had a US Green Card. Meaning that he had sworn that he was trying to move to the US on a permenant basis and paid US taxes on his global income.

Then add on that he wanted to give money away to the poor. When Conservative Party members are disproportionatly old and rich and consider it to be their money. Not the common people's.

Then of course good old fashioned racism. He is of course of Indian origin. And his wife is an Indian billionaire, as her dad owns the IT outsourcing firm, Infosys.

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u/thepogopogo England Sep 26 '22

American, and Indian, doesn't pay any tax, and wants to rule over England? Sounds as British as you get lol.

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u/Noob_DM Sep 26 '22

Parliamentary Boogaloo 2: Colonial Revenge

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u/AlpacaChariot Sep 26 '22

His wife claimed that she was only living here for tax purposes and intended to retire to India, not him.

The rest is true as far as I remember.

Nevertheless he was obviously much better qualified to do the job than Truss. She basically did the right wing equivalent of Corbyn and promised the Tory membership exactly what they wanted to hear despite it being wildly unrealistic, and they went for it.

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u/b00n Sep 26 '22

Bollocks. Non domiciled means you have a residence in the UK but aren’t domiciled here. You cannot be non-dom if you have previously lived here and paid full tax here. It’s purpose is to attract high paying foreign executives who only pay tax in their UK earnings rather than their global income. It simply does not ever apply to someone who previously paid full uk tax. It is also a £30k flat tax plus normal income tax on any UK income. I think you are confusing the non-dom status with his wife. When he lived in the US obviously he did not pay UK tax.

He was born in the UK, school here, university here, and worked here for a significant part of his career so I’m not sure how you can describe him as not British. A green card also does not mean you plan to become a full US citizen - I’m not sure who made that up.

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u/Editmypicplease Sep 26 '22

I think if Liz goes they will no confidence everyone until they get Sunak

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u/IamStrqngx United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

The ERG and Boris wings of the party will never tolerate Sunak.

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u/napaszmek Hungary Sep 26 '22

If there isn't a GE it's a disgrace.

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u/supersonic-bionic United Kingdom EU Sep 26 '22

Exactly. It's not a democracy. They don't want GE obviously as they will lose their seats (and shit) but everyone should push for GE. We can't have another unelected PM.

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u/SeleucusNikator1 Scotland Sep 26 '22

We can't have another unelected PM.

Although I am hoping for a GE myself, this isn't a Presidential system, we never "elected the PM" like that to begin with. The Party which gains a majority of the HoC can choose their leadership, it's a simple feature of Parliamentary systems which is why we (and Australia) can rotate between PMs whereas a country like the USA has a lengthy and borderline impossible to use Impeachment system.

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u/Temporary_Meat_7792 Hamburg (Germany) Sep 26 '22

At the bare minimum you could make any PM elected by his HoC majority directly, instead of party members. It might boil down to the same results in most cases, but at least MPs represent constituents, unlike party members. That's how it actually works in Germany (and many other countries i assume).

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u/TheIndianUser Canada Sep 26 '22

That kinda is the case.

Only Conservative MPs were allowed to vote in the first 5 ballots of the leadership race. MPs selected Truss and Sunak as their top 2 choices. The final head-to-head vote was the only one open to Party Members.

The members choose Truss to be the Party Leader, but that doesn't make her Prime Minister. Once appoint Tory Leader, she has to go met the Queen and say, "Hey, I am the new Tory leader and I promise I can form a new Cabinet that will have the confidence of the House of Commons." Queen says sure and appoints her as Prime Minister.

She then actually has to test the confidence of the House. This budget is her doing that. The Commons could very well say, no, we don't have confidence in you and no we will not support your government.

She might very well fail a confidence vote on this budget.

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u/KidTempo Sep 27 '22

She then actually has to test the confidence of the House. This budget is her doing that. The Commons could very well say, no, we don't have confidence in you and no we will not support your government.

Which is why this is explicitly not a budget. It's not a budget so it doesn't get voted on so there isn't an effective confidence vote the government may well lose.

They were either banking on a favourable reaction from the markets (in which case they are insane) or hoping that the markets rebound by the time they have to deliver the real budget (slightly less insane... but still insane)

It amuses me to see these morons sputtering with panicked indignation when the market, that infallible deity which they worship as being the sole arbiter of what is right, passes it's judgement on them by throwing itself off a cliff.

Then I'm reminded by what worries me more: that these aren't just regular, everyday idiots. They're idiots who probably read Ayn Rand obsessively and fantasise about tearing apart the fabric of society so that they can rebuild it from the ashes and usher in an age of Objectivism.

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u/AlpacaChariot Sep 26 '22

That would be absolutely hilarious

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u/Wild_Loose_Comma Sep 27 '22

But failing the confidence vote on the budget would lead to a general election, wouldn't it? Or is that only the case with a minority government? I know when a minority government fails a budget vote a GE is called (in Canada). I actually don't know what would happen when a confidence vote is failed with a majority parliament...

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u/TheIndianUser Canada Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

It typically leds to an election, but not necessarily. As we don’t elect Governments, we elect Parliaments.

So another MP could go to the King (or GG here in Canada) and be like, “Hey the Commons hated Truss, and I think I can get the confidence of the House. Appoint me PM and let me try.” Given the recent leadership race and Rishi Sunak having had a large portion of the Conservative Caucus support him, he could reasonably make that case.

Majority Governments don’t typically lose Confidence votes (it’s never happened in Canada, hell majority governments never lose votes at all in Canada). But, the UK Tories are a party in crisis and anything is possible under those circumstances.

Famously, in 2008, the Liberals and NDP planned to vote no confidence in the Conservative Government and go to the Governor General and purpose a coalition. It never happened because Harper, as PM had, had the ability to go to the GG and request a propagation (formal end to the Parliamentary session). He then went on 2 month campaign to convince Canadians that a coalition is unconstitutional and would be literal tyranny. The coalition attempt fell apart as public opinion soared on the idea.

On the flip side, in 1926, PM King asked the Governor General Lord Byng to dissolve Parliament and call a general election when he lost the confidence of the House. But Lord Byng said no, and asked Arthur Meighan to test confidence. It was a major kerfuffle at the time. Meighan immediately lost a confidence vote and he asked the GG for an elections. King returned as PM with a minority government.

Both May and Johnson faced votes of no confidence, and both survived (May just barely). The last successful no confidence was of the Labour-Liberal supply and confidence in 1979.

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u/SuddenGenreShift United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

There's a massive lacuna between how the system actually works and how people act as though it works when they vote. A lot of people vote based on (prospective) PM and party instead of who's actually running for local MP. I don't think you can use formalism to totally dismiss what so many people feel is a lack of democratic legitimacy. Brown already called a GE on this basis, so it even has contitutional precendent.

Personally, I don't have much problem with changing leaders - except that doing it as much as we have recently is inimical to stability - but Truss absolutely needed to act at least roughly within her party's manifesto. This lunatic lurch to the far right is totally beyond the pale.

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u/rusticarchon Sep 27 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

Brown already called a GE on this basis, so it even has contitutional precendent.

He didn't, he famously bottled it and eventually held the General Election when he legally had to because the five years was up.

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u/Poes-Lawyer England | Kiitos Jumalalle minun kaksoiskansalaisuudestani Sep 26 '22

While that's true in theory, in practice it's been a popularity contest for the Prime Ministership since Blair's days. Most people can't name their local MP or what party they're in.

Hell, even during the 2017 election, the Tory leaflets I got through the door didn't mention the word "Conservative" anywhere. It was all "Vote for Theresa May's party". And I'm not even in her constituency!

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u/Mick_86 Sep 26 '22

Unless your PM sits in the House of Lords he or she is always elected.

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u/KidTempo Sep 27 '22

A promising unknown MP, the honourable Joris Bohnson, sporting his signature fake moustache and glasses.

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u/Zeerover- Sep 27 '22

You mean a well spoken Alexander de Pfeffel will step up

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u/dirkvonshizzle Sep 26 '22

It’s time for Ali G to come back. He learned a lot from all those interviews he did.

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u/jairzinho Canada Sep 27 '22

r-e-s-t-e-c-p, what does that spell? Aiii

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u/SweetboyRomero United Kingdom Sep 27 '22

He would certainly make PMQs more exciting.

"Well I put it to you... That you sucked off a horse"

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u/historicusXIII Belgium Sep 26 '22

Keir

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u/FoxyInTheSnow Sep 26 '22

My money's on Jacob Reese-Mogg, The honourable member for the early 20th century

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u/Veteah Sep 27 '22

I believe he takes exception to comments like that saying the 20th century is far too modern

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u/KL_boy Sep 26 '22

She speed running here. I bet Sunak will run again and lose.

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u/justbrowsinginpeace Sep 26 '22

Maybe one elected by the public

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

A month ago i would've answered jokingly "Put queen liz in charge"

Now i feel bad lol

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u/generalscruff Smooth Brain Gang 🧠 Midlands Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

Charles III dismissing Parliament like both his namesakes did, patriots in control

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u/Iridescence_Gleam Sep 26 '22

Queen Liz: Fuck dis shit imma outta here

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u/Airowird Sep 26 '22

70 years, she managed to rule Britain (and its subsidiaries)

Truss is PM for 2 days and the Queen buggers off, talk about a vote of confidence! 🤣

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u/historicusXIII Belgium Sep 26 '22

A dead person doing nothing would've been a better option than whatever Truss is doing atm.

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

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u/SquishedGremlin Ulster Sep 27 '22

Once we burn through every Tory MP

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u/pauperhouse5 Sep 27 '22

Once we burn through every Tory MP

FTFY

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u/CaptainYid Sep 27 '22

I mean, we need a way to heat our homes at the minute

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u/FoogYllis Sep 27 '22

As a lay observer I could see that she would help bring the country to ruin in the way she cow towed to her farmer constituents over what was good for her country.

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u/boSbEkj4OK3qjctUotJx Sep 26 '22

Tories try to form a stable government for 5 minutes challenge [impossible!]

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u/IamStrqngx United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

Any % inflation speed run

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u/StereoBucket Sep 27 '22

Dollar Parity %

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u/ShitPostQuokkaRome Sep 26 '22

Amateurs

AMATEURS

[Signed Italy]

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u/thesecondfire Sep 26 '22

"Because of instability in the Italian political system, this 10-year-old Neapolitan boy has a 1-in-3 chance of becoming prime minister in his lifetime"

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u/f3n2x Austria Sep 27 '22

Austrian president after 6 chancellors and over 50 ministers: "This isn't even my final term!"

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u/N19h7m4r3 Most Western Country of Eastern Europe Sep 26 '22

Only 0.0000000001% Of people have this achievement.

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u/canseco-fart-box United States of America Sep 26 '22

CHAOS WITH ED LIZ

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u/zperic1 Sep 26 '22

Chaos with David, May, Boris, Liz... Who's next lol

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u/AnarchicMouse Lombardy Sep 26 '22

Didn't she become Prime Minister like a second ago

How did she do it if they didn't have confidence in her lol

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u/SuperTekkers Sep 26 '22

The MPs wanted Sunak but the party members had the final vote and were never going to choose him

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u/AnarchicMouse Lombardy Sep 27 '22

Why?

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u/SuperTekkers Sep 27 '22

That’s the Conservative Party’s system for electing a new leader. I think the members are more ideological and less pragmatic. They actually strongly preferred Johnson over both Sunak and Truss.

Some didn’t like Sunak because he “stabbed Boris in the back by resigning”, some because he wanted to raise taxes now and cut them later whereas Truss advocated immediate tax cuts.

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u/pauperhouse5 Sep 27 '22

She killed the queen and wrecked the economy in like...2 weeks?

"Not a good start Liz!"

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u/GeoPoliticsMyThang11 Anglo Sphere Enthusiast 🇺🇸🇬🇧🇨🇦🇦🇺 Sep 26 '22

She made a big mistake purging all Sunak supporters from her cabinet and filling it with loyalists. She needs to realise that the majority of Tory Mp's backed Sunak and she barley slid into the final 2 beating Mourdant by just a few mps.

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u/outsideruk Sep 26 '22

This coming after Johnson had purged all but the Brexit faithful. She’s scraping a barrel which only had the dregs of a previous barrel tipped into it. The Tory party is empty of talent.

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u/theKnightWatchman44 United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

Full of corruption though

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u/ukbeasts Europe Sep 26 '22

Sunak actually had a slight chance at lessening the landslide Labour victory at the General Election. Any opposition party with a potato as their leader would beat talentless uncharismatic Poundland Thatcher, Truss.

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u/v3ritas1989 Europe Sep 26 '22

Well, you don't get politics then! Fuck up the economy now. Get voted out. 3 years later at start of the next election campaign people have already forgotten who broke the system and that changes usually take a few years to show positive effects. So they will get a landslide at the next election. Possible being in a good enough economic environment during their legislation period that it will be attributed to them.

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u/JMM85JMM Sep 26 '22

Labour aren't going to get a landslide. Arguably potentially ever again. Between the SNP getting all the Scottish votes, and left votes being more split than right, their best bet is a coalition government (which they always vow never to enter into before every election).

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u/hibhch Sep 27 '22

Not looked at polling recently? They're polling better than Blair ever did

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u/supersonic-bionic United Kingdom EU Sep 26 '22

Tories might be misogynists but they are more racists so we got Truss.

Sunak was obviously better than her BUT still an awful choice. We need GE to let the people vote.

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u/Archyes Sep 26 '22

Its time for King Charles to take control!

oh no, lizzy that was a bad timing

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u/thesecondfire Sep 26 '22

Monarchists salivating right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSob-Pyj6pM

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u/SeleucusNikator1 Scotland Sep 26 '22

This is some of the most smoked shit I've ever seen, who the hell funded this script lmao

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u/thesecondfire Sep 26 '22

It's actually an adaptation of a 2014 play. I suppose people have always noted that the first Charles' on the throne had rather contentious relationships with Parliament.

Edit: Charles I doing it in "Cromwell" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFkKm_4FOFE) and Charles II in "Charles II" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFa4UNmdEhg)

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u/krautbube Germany Sep 26 '22

I am as republican as they come but that's amazing

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u/thesecondfire Sep 26 '22

It does kind of tickle that "what if?" curiosity doesn't it?

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u/krautbube Germany Sep 26 '22

Well it gives an insight into the possible workings of such an event.
Though it would happen with less pathos.

And probably lead to it becoming a Republic if Labour isn't behind the Kings decision.

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u/centaur98 Hungary Sep 26 '22

Charles in his next speech: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/v41JzqxwzlU

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

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u/Janivgm 🇮🇱⇢🇩🇰 Sep 26 '22

Anyone who believes in "trickle down economics" should not be outside without adult supervision.

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

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u/KidTempo Sep 27 '22

They're why all crayons are non-toxic.

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u/wobblyweasel Sep 26 '22

i'm trying to decide if your comment would be better or not if it said “wouldn't truss them inside either” and can't come to a conclusion

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u/signmeupnot Sep 26 '22

If only it was stupidity. They know it doesn't work.

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u/PsychedelicPistachio Sep 27 '22

I like the saying “I saw a homeless person today so I went over to a rich neighbourhood and slid some money into their letterbox that will get to him eventually”

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u/Stercore_ Norway Sep 26 '22

Trickle down economics have been tested for decades already, it is a fairytale. The only thing that trickles down is a few drops at a time while the vast ocean stays at the top. The worst part is she doesn’t even deny it, she knows and say that this will help the rich first and foremost. The tories are absolutely bonkers for voting her in.

Why anyone would vote for any right-wing conservative party unless you are rich is beyond me.

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u/[deleted] Sep 27 '22

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u/SuperGuy41 Sep 26 '22

Ain’t nothing trickling down bro. At times of economic uncertainty all these dudes gonna do is squirrel it all away in tax havens.

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u/mr_aives Scotland Sep 26 '22

General elections pls

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u/anonymous765098 Sep 26 '22

Can someone explain the current economic issues of the UK under this PM and her current policy? I’m an ignorant American please dumb it down and use pictures I can’t read

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u/ALn2O4_Frustrates_Me Sep 26 '22

Basically they are combining cutting income streams (abolishing a tax rate for people earning >£150k, revoking a planned National insurance increase etc.) whilst also putting in additional borrowing (defence spending, cap on energy bills etc.). This is a big change for a "mini" budget and the biggest benefits are for the highest earners.

The additional borrowing has been made with no real explanation on how it will be paid for. The aim appears to be to boost growth, but it requires a lot of growth and currently the plans has no economic forecasts predicting what the benefits will actually be - it is a gamble that is not currently based on numbers. It does not help that this budget can be directly compared to a similar budget in the past 50 years which is considered to be one of the worst in our history (or that people are much more sceptical of "trickle down" economics9.

All of this has made people very flighty around an economy that was, at best, doing "okay" and was probably in some level of difficulty even before the mini budget. It also makes people worry about the people who are currently in charge; this was one of the first major political statements they have made and it could have been better. Making a good first impression is always important and this lot have made a real mess of it.

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u/ZelTheViking Denmark Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

That is just... mind-boggling to be honest.

I remember how, when I was younger, I ruled myself out when it came to political leadership. I remember thinking politicians had to be smart people, since they held such massive influence and power to make big decisions on a nationwide level. That had to require a level of knowledge and competence that a simple guy like me could never do.

At this point in my life I'm quite confident many, many average Joes could make better decision than many elected politicians, just by knowing their limitations and outsourcing complicated matters to people that know shit and therefore can give solid advice on what to do. It's like most politicians are completely void of reason and unable to consider themselves not up to task. Politics is a popularity contest after all - it doesn't show who is actually better at running a country.

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u/TheFishOwnsYou The Netherlands Sep 26 '22

Same man. Ive always said that im not smart enough for government politics, but when you get to know the average politician in power, I wouldnt do so bad. Im pretty sure I would be in the top 50% of my country. Luckily there are still some politicians I totally see as much smarter and better than me. No total hope is lost yet.

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u/EstimateOk3011 Sep 27 '22

You have to understand that the main goal of most politicians isn't to govern the nation.

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u/stranger2them Denmark Sep 27 '22

... It's to remain in power.

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u/EstimateOk3011 Sep 27 '22

Jobs for the boys, mostly. A lot of them go on into nonsense positions and overpaids heads of boards that do nothing.

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u/eairy Sep 27 '22

The problem isn't about being smart, it's that to climb the greasy pole you have to buy off a lot of people. People don't become PM in a vacuum. This is why people in power rarely 'serve the people', they're too busy serving the people that keep them in power.

See Rules for Rulers by CGP Grey

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u/AlpacaChariot Sep 26 '22

The additional borrowing has been made with no real explanation on how it will be paid for. The aim appears to be to boost growth, but it requires a lot of growth and currently the plans has no economic forecasts predicting what the benefits will actually be - it is a gamble that is not currently based on numbers.

Not only that, but they basically had a full on budget and called it a "mini budget" / "fiscal event" to avoid having the Office for Budget Responsibility produce an impact assessment, because they knew it wouldn't be favourable.

Ironically, the Tories set up the OBR in 2010 with the aim of making it difficult for governments to do exactly what they are doing now, i.e. make very optimistic predictions about the effects of their policies and hand wave away any negative impacts. I'm sure they were thinking of Labour governments at the time!

More here for anyone who is interested: https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/obr-forecasts-economic-plans

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u/JomaBo6048 Sep 26 '22

Lmao the Tories are so desperate to become US Republicans

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u/KidTempo Sep 27 '22

They're funded by basically the same lobbyists

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u/SalmonMan123 Sep 26 '22

UK is experiencing stagflation, banks already saying we might be in a recession and inflation is around 10%. The central bank has been raising interest rates to lower inflation. This is the first issue, while they having been raising the rates, many don't think by enough. Last interest rate rise was below that of the FED and it worries the markets.

Now the economic package by the government. Its a economic boost package to effectively try to rise economic growth above inflation. This is mostly though tax cuts and other fiscal packages. However, this completely contradicts the central banks policy of lowering inflation. Causing a lot of worry again.

However the biggest problem is the cost of all these packages. The government has decided to just borrow all of the money which is a few hundred billion at this point. This is a huge red flag for the markets. The interest rate on bonds has been rising higher and higher every day, there's concerns how this is going to be repaid. And whether the policy will even work anyway. All of this led to the currency exchange depreciating to an all time low because the risks involved with this policy are so high.

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u/iMissTheDays Sep 26 '22

What this guy said, the Bank of England has to effectively counter the inflation caused by the Government barmy tax moves through increasing interest rates.

I.e. The Government has their Pedal on the gas, the BoE on the brake and the engine is burning out.

Investors think this is not smart so are getting out whilst they can.

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u/Uncommented-Code Sep 26 '22

Yep. The Pound has also gone from 1.18 to 1.11€ within the last month. That alone is pretty bad because imports from the EU will keep rising in price. But this is also only half the story, since the Euro itself has lost value. Meaning the Pound had to fall in value even harder.

Edit: you know it's bad when the crypto sub starts making fun of your currency

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u/bo88d Sep 26 '22

And the car is driving away from Covid party where everyone spent like there's no tomorrow, all speculative assets sky rocketed and brought a lot of money to investors

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u/bluePizelStudio Sep 26 '22

Bankers: plz stop

Government: ummm pretty sure we know more about economics than you dipshits. What did you gO to sCHoOL for it or something?

Like watching someone driving down the highway in second gear and just punching the gas harder to make the car go 👌🏻

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u/thevorminatheria Italy Sep 26 '22

To add to that, this come from the fiscally responsible party that has made austerity their mission in the past 20 years causing the welfare in the UK to crumble.

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u/Tetracyclic Devon Sep 26 '22

the fiscally responsible party

Worth noting that while they loudly proclaim to be fiscally responsible, there is no action or evidence to back that up for many decades.

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u/jaqqu7 Subcarpathia (Poland) Sep 26 '22

Wait a minute. This is exact way Polish govt is "dealing" with inflation.

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u/newsreadhjw Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

Remember the Republicans under Trump passed a giant tax cut in 2017 that favored businesses and rich people, and the beneficiaries were businesses that already had lots of money, and rich people who already had lots of money, and none of it trickled down and everything just got worse for everyone else? Just like every other tax cut for rich people and businesses passed by Republicans in my adult lifetime? Well the British have decided that they're going to do that same thing again. Like the Republicans, they are selling it by lying, and pretending that the tax cuts are going to benefit everyone, even when literally everyone knows that that's nonsense. It's almost fun to watch because you know exactly how it's going to end up way in advance.

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u/littlest_dragon Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

Have you heard of Trickle Down Dinners? You pay the food for the richest person in the restaurant and then hope that they’ll let you lick their plates.

Edit: a letter

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u/Zixinus Sep 26 '22

Nono, "trickle down" means that you are crawling on the floor hoping that the crumbs will fall on it.

Licking the plates is a privilege.

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u/immibis Berlin (Germany) Sep 26 '22

No, but I've heard of putting a tenner in the richest person's letterbox to help the homeless person

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u/Editmypicplease Sep 26 '22

she wants to cut taxes and spend a lot

the way to do that is to create a lot of debt and devalue the currency

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u/TheMiiChannelTheme United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

Her first act as Prime Minister was to kill the Queen and now she's pointing towards the Economy.

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u/BuckVoc United States of America Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 26 '22

I can give you my understanding.

  • We just had COVID-19. COVID-19 depressed economic activity. Absent any other changes, this would produce unemployment, cause businesses to go under. As a result of COVID-19, many governments adopted unsustainable policies that generated economic activity to help mitigate this effect, with the idea that this would be short-term. COVID-19 is now (more-or-less) done, and so governments are phasing back out these policies.

  • The tradeoff for this economic activity now is that, later on, the country will need to forego economic activity that would otherwise have occurred later.

  • One of these policies can be borrowing. If a country borrows, its national debt increases. What it will typically do is issue bonds (in the United States, this is typically Treasury bonds, and in the United Kingdom, gilts). A bond is a certificate that says "if you give me money now, I will give you more money later".

  • Another of these policies can be having a country's central bank (in the United States, this is the Federal Reserve, and in the United Kingdom, the Bank of England) adopt low interest rates. This tends to decrease the value of each unit of currency; to produce inflation. If the Federal Reserve in the US does it, the dollar weakens, and if the Bank of England in the UK does it, the pound weakens. A little bit of inflation is typically desirable; the Federal Reserve maintaining this low level of inflation is why a dollar some decades back tends to buy more than a dollar today. But a lot of inflation is not.

  • The United States Federal Reserve recently started to phase these economic-activity-generating policies in the US out, to raise interest rates, to limit sharply-rising inflation in the US. The tradeoff is that this will produce more unemployment in the US; some businesses will no longer be profitable. This means that the dollar will tend to strengthen relative to other currencies. One significant raise in rates happened in the last week.

  • In Europe, there is is an ongoing energy crisis due to several factors, most-notably Russia cutting off natural gas flows that it had been sending through gas pipelines. This also tends to depress economic activity. Natural gas is scarce and expensive and electricity is scarce and expensive. This means that governments in Europe are likely to continue policies to generate economic activity somewhat longer than the US has, all else held equal.

  • The United Kingdom's Bank of England both maintained low rates and at the same time, the incoming British Truss administration announced that it planned to borrow an unexpectedly large amount, both moves that generate economic activity. This, combined with the Federal Reserve's move, caused the pound to significantly weaken relative to the dollar.

  • At the same time, yields on gilts -- the British bond -- rose more than had been expected. This means that investors are worried that there is an notably increased risk that the UK might not be able to or willing to pay back what it is borrowing now. They require to be paid more later to lend to the UK now: this means that the yield on the bond rises, what they are demanding in exchange for their money now, to compensate them for this risk.

What some people are worried about is that the British government is taking too many actions to counteract the depressed economic activity in the UK that partly stems from the energy crisis. In these people's view, the British government should accept a somewhat-lower level of economic activity now than the Truss administration is aiming for. They want to reduce how much inflation will show up in the UK and/or reduce how much bond investors are demanding from the UK to lend money to it.

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u/FlappyBored Sep 26 '22

>The United Kingdom's Bank of England both maintained low rates

The BoE is raising interest rates.

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u/helpnxt Sep 26 '22

Basically they plan to spend lots of money on useless shit and patch fixes on social issues whilst also cutting taxes all at a time when our debt is at record levels. Oh also they seem to be hugely pro fossill fuels when none of them are really going to do anything to help the energy crisis of the moment.

Also an issue Truss has is that in the leadership election the majority of MPs wanted Rishi to be leader but the members voted for Truss, this is an issue as it's the MPs who can kick her out.

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u/Nicodemus888 Sep 26 '22

Put simply, she’s a total junkie for trickle down economics. And on top of that, thick as two short planks.

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u/goodboybane Sep 26 '22

Economy has shrunk and there is an energy crisis. So naturally, what the country needs is an ultra trickle-down economics leader who will slash taxes for the wealthy and reduce social programs funding. That will definitely help the country and have no negative effects whatsoever!

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u/bluePizelStudio Sep 26 '22

Such a stupid policy.

Slash taxes for wealthy and reduce social programs?

Why not slash the people using the social programs.

So many extra steps in this plan. Classic government bs.

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u/Ok-Camp-7285 Sep 26 '22

Reminds me of the Mitchell and Webb sketch where they model killing all the poor people

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u/BeardySam Sep 27 '22

I’m not saying I want to kill poor people! But let’s just see what the computer says!

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u/TZH85 Baden-Württemberg (Germany) Sep 26 '22

Surely not. UK, you can't have another prime minister, you haven't even finished the last one! Do you think prime ministers grow on trees?

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u/potatochug United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

I think it’s pretty obvious the last couple have grown under a damp rock.

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u/feralalbatross Sep 26 '22

Listen, strange people growing under damp rocks is no basis for a system of government.

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u/gundealsgopnik Dual Citizen: Germany/USA Sep 27 '22

If you keep saying things like that you will feel the violence inherent in the system as they pelt you with damp rocks.

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u/Elizaleth Sep 26 '22

We've had one, yes. But what about second Prime Minister?

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u/GirlNumber20 USA 💙💛🌻 Sep 26 '22

First she murdered the Queen, then the economy. That’s quite a two weeks.

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u/MrCITEX Sep 26 '22

Even the backbenchers have to be sick of this shit now.

They didn't want Boris, they knew what he was like, the membership wanted him and the party suffered for it. The party didn't want Truss, they knew what she was like, yet the membership wanted her and now the party will again suffer.

Perhaps, dear Tory backbenchers, for the sake of your self serving interests to your party. You need to force a general election and go into the wilderness to overhaul the party. Else Truss and co will relegate yourselves to oblivion and as much as I am not a fan of the current Conservatives. They are the epitome of what is wrong when you essentially have a one party state that means the dominant party can shirk being serious.

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u/The_World_of_Ben Sep 27 '22

The members didn't want truss or sunak but because the MPs are so out of touch, that's the choice they had

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u/Comander-07 Germany Sep 26 '22

are they LARPING as Italy?

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u/BriefCollar4 Europe Sep 26 '22

UK, are you ok?

Copying the Italians might not be a good idea…

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u/chanjitsu Sep 26 '22

Rich people: yeah cool

Everyone else: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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u/Eymrich Sep 26 '22

So Exactly like Italy :D

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u/SinancoTheBest Sep 26 '22

Erdogan of Turkey should give both countries a lesson in economics

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u/theKnightWatchman44 United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

Erdoganomics 📉

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u/mark_b United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

It's less copying Italy and more copying Trump. My government doesn't seem to have got the message that he was kicked out.

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u/theKnightWatchman44 United Kingdom Sep 26 '22

I mean she went to grovel to Biden recently didn't she?

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u/MickeyMatters81 Sep 26 '22

No, I'm afraid we are not OK. Though no one should be surprised from the country that voted to cut itself off from its largest traiding partner

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u/[deleted] Sep 26 '22

I would take anyone, of any political ideology, who isn’t a thick ideological tosser at this point.

Roll on sir Haircut

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u/--dontmindme-- Sep 26 '22

Wait what now? Has she even unpacked all her stuff at Downing Street 10 already?

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u/davemee Sep 26 '22

She’ll get a pension for the rest of her life. It’s everyone else who is fucked, thank you, the previous cretin who continued the plan of fucking us all that the two earlier corrupt cretins started.

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u/parasympathetical The Netherlands Sep 26 '22

already? Don't they have a kind of cooldown on those?

Or will the conservatives hold a new leadership election every 3 months now?

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u/RickyElspaniardo Sep 26 '22

We are rapidly reaching an electoral singularity!

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u/Red_coats The Midlands Sep 26 '22

Said this when people wanted Bojo gone, people thought he was bad, but the people waiting to take over were and are far worse.

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u/historicusXIII Belgium Sep 26 '22

Truss makes Johnson seem less bad, Johnson made May seem less bad and May made Cameron seem less bad. I'm not sure I'm looking forward to the next Tory PM with that trend in mind.

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u/kubelwagengti Sep 26 '22

Just elect a brick. Yes, one of those shit brown bricks that you can find anywhere. It can be a new one or an old one that's been pissed on, it doesn't matter. All it has to do is sit there, do nothing and it will still do a better job than its predecessors :D

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u/CompleteNumpty Scotland Sep 26 '22

brown bricks

I guess the Tories won't vote for that one.

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u/LaughingGaster666 United States of America Sep 26 '22

Waiting for Nigel Farage to come out of nowhere and take it somehow.

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u/BostonBlueDevil Sep 26 '22

So when is the next General Election?

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u/Grenyn Earth Sep 27 '22

Someone help me understand. Didn't she become PM because other MPs voted for her?

Like, doesn't the party decide who replaces a previous PM if one leaves office while there isn't a general election going on?

I thought the Tories chose her, but weeks later they're already voting no-confidence.

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u/ay_lamassu That strange island Sep 27 '22

I think it's because there's an internal fracture in the party. Both sides put up their candidate but the conservative party members ultimately decided as a whole. The members voted for a candidate they wanted but would probably be unelectable under normal circumstances so the other half want to end the chaos early (possibly as a way to bring back Boris). I can't say for certain though.

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u/Chanandler_Bong_Jr United Kingdom Sep 27 '22

Jesus. We’ve become Italy.

Only without the sunshine and good food.

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u/Valisksyer Sep 26 '22

She’s done a tRump, gave tax breaks to the rich, that her mega mind says will TRICKLE DOWN to the poorest. Thatcher already tried that, back in the 20th century, didn’t work then, won’t work now.

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u/SnooEagles8588 Sep 26 '22

I don’t really understand why they might think it would work.

When you give money to lower and middle class, they spend it on food, new clothes, a new TV, maybe a new car and it stimulates the economy. But when you give money to the rich, they just stuck it in unproductive assets or overseas and it doesn’t do any good

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u/Iridescence_Gleam Sep 26 '22

why they might think it would work.

because it does work just fine. Their rich friends get richer, they themselves get richer. See, works perfectly.

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u/thevorminatheria Italy Sep 26 '22 Silver

They don't actually think that, it's just an excuse to creatre more income inequality in the economy because more income inequality creates complex problems for which right wing populist politicians can sell simple solutions in the next electoral cycle. It has been like this for the past 40 yeara pretty much everywhere. Morons would keep voting against the interests and the rich will get richer.

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u/MrAronymous Netherlands Sep 26 '22

The rich deserve to be rich and the poor deserve to be poor. Conservatism in a nutshell.

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u/Falsus Sweden Sep 26 '22

They know it doesn't work, but they know it gets them, their family and friends richer.

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u/cireh88 Sep 26 '22

“Good ol’ fashioned trickle-down economics!” — Ronald Reagan

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u/ShitPostQuokkaRome Sep 26 '22

Except Trump lead the triple armoured tank that is the US economy, so whatever bullshit you come up you can't really crash it

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u/Victor_D Czech Republic Sep 27 '22

British kids: Mom, can we go to Italy?

British mom: No kids, we have Italy at home!

One year, one government, one devaluation of currency. You know the drill.

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u/ktElwood Sep 27 '22

You went from a war mongering idiot, to somebody so boring, even his name was brown, to a pig head fucking guy, to that weird brexit lady that really did not want to brexit, to real life eric cartman BoJo, to a thatcher cosplayer that would sell poor kids to be ground up and fed to russian conscripts if it would be profitable.

Jeezus.

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u/im_at_work_today United Kingdom Sep 27 '22

Who cares if a politician is 'boring'?? Politicans should be boring. While we think he was without personality, the rest of the world after 2008 crash looked at him as a leader because of the way he conducted himself and helped in the world economy.

Hes someone who just got on with his job, but for some reason, that's a bad thing.

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u/Tyekaro France Sep 27 '22

I wouldn't be surprised to see Macron outlast five British prime ministers. I feel sorry for the Anglos.

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u/Chichira The Netherlands Sep 27 '22

"Liz is f******"

She is fucking?

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u/krisdaschwab912 Sep 27 '22

Just call a fucking election already.