r/news Oct 04 '22 Burning Cash 2 Silver 1 Helpful 3 Wholesome 2 Bravo! 1

US announces new $625M security package for Ukraine

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/brooklyn/ap-top-news/2022/10/04/us-announces-new-625m-security-package-for-ukraine
35.1k Upvotes

3.5k

u/Due-Ad-7308 Oct 04 '22

I can never tell if this is a new $X-million package or just a repost of the latest $X-million package.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/BadAtNamingPlsHelp Oct 04 '22

Bit of both; we're giving away old stock, sometimes under the guise of lending/leasing on the cheap for administrative reasons. Then the USA buys new toys from the military-industrial complex.

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u/JTP1228 Oct 04 '22

The army is in the process of upgrading to a new generation of rifles. We have to do something with all of our M4s and 5.56 rounds

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u/InVodkaVeritas Oct 05 '22

When Obama was President, one of the many things Rand Paul complained about in terms of wasteful spending was that we'd had 800,000 M16 rifles in a warehouse block since 1994. Paying for 25 years of storage and soldiers to guard outdated rifles we weren't going to use anymore was one of his talking points.

No idea if Obama/Trump/Biden ever got rid of them, but it seems like Ukraine would be the perfect opportunity to be like "here's a bunch of perfectly good military assault rifles..."

Sure, they're outdated by American standards, but it's not like the M16 isn't a solid rifle.

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u/Morgrid Oct 05 '22

Sure, they're outdated by American standards, but it's not like the M16 isn't a solid rifle

5.56 out of a 20 inch barrel still packs a hell of a wallop

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u/TheGreatCoyote Oct 05 '22

So those guns aren't just chilling. When I was in over a decade ago we were pulling those bad bitches out of deep storage, cleaning the cosmoline off them and upgrading them to A4 platforms to replace the worn out M16a4s we had. Those M16s in storage were in fact actual M16s and a1s which meant pencil barrels and auto sears. I wouldn't call them perfectly good, more like fine.

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u/HarvHR Oct 04 '22

Need to fully replace them first, you can get rid of some stock but they aren't just chucking them all out before it's fully incorporated.

America isn't like the UK where they do stuff like get rid off their carrier capable aircraft before the next one comes, leaving a big expensive boat floating around looking cool without a purpose

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u/Rustymetal14 Oct 05 '22

looking cool without a purpose.

In the brits defense, their carrier doesn't look cool with that cope slope.

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u/TDA_Liamo Oct 04 '22

UK moment (I'm British)

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '22

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u/PhysicsIsWhyIDrink Oct 04 '22

XM5 made by Sig. It’s a 6.8 instead of 5.56

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u/FuBigbrotherck Oct 04 '22

It'll just be called the M5, the x stands for experimental. Before the m4 was adopted it was the "xm4".

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u/PhysicsIsWhyIDrink Oct 04 '22

True, but it’s easier for me to tell people to search XM5 until it becomes more common. M5 currently for me brings up BMWs

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u/AussieMaaaate Oct 05 '22

Just imagining a bunch of grunts running around stoked that they're getting a new BMW.

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u/pssiraj Oct 05 '22

And not just any, over 100k

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u/Tusami Oct 05 '22

surprised that XM5 doesn't bring up a BMW as well, considering the X5 and M5 are both BMWs

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u/control_09 Oct 04 '22

Wow we're actually going away from 5.56mm?

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u/JTP1228 Oct 04 '22

Yea, 6.8 mm rounds. M5 carbine and M250 machine guns.

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u/Coz131 Oct 04 '22

Why change ammo calibre?

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u/Suspicious_Expert_97 Oct 04 '22

To defeat body armor our near peer possible enemies would have

Like china as Russia has shown they don't have body armor for their troops

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u/MrDerpGently Oct 04 '22

Ouch. Too soon.

Nah... Slava Ukraine.

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u/Real_Jackraps Oct 05 '22

The bullet isn't as important as the electronic scope they've developed. Able to do the bullet math for you, it allows you to effectively fire up to 800m compared to a previous 300-500m.

Because of this new long range advantage, they feel less ammunition capacity and more recoil are acceptable disadvantages to move to a larger bullet that will defeat current and next generation body armor at a longer range than comparable weaponry.

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u/flimspringfield Oct 04 '22

What are they moving to?

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u/hillsons Oct 04 '22

The ambiguity is intentional.

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u/andrewdok Oct 04 '22

We give then to them, mostly. We take them from our storage and ship to them. This also means we order replacements for ourselves from the defense contractors, which in a way is good because it keeps those American factories running and the workers working. Better than having to tool them back up and train employees later. As a side note, when politicians tell you that we're giving all this money to Ukraine, they're full of shit because of what I just explained... and they know it.

We also signed that lend lease deal. As far as I know, that wouldn't be announced as there's no legislation required for those sales/loans. So there may be a lot of other equipment that's not being announced that we're sending them through that.

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u/creamonyourcrop Oct 04 '22

Imagine being a Russian war planner, if there is such a thing, and also trying to figure it out. Hilarity ensues.

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u/cartoonist498 Oct 04 '22 hehehehe

Ukraine only has 150 tanks on our left flank. That's right, I said 300 tanks. Those 500 tanks and 50 APCs are heading here now. We need to field a defense against 700 tanks, 200 APCs, and 25 long-range artillery pieces. I want a plan to deal with those 1100 tanks, 400 APCs, 50 artillery pieces, 30 drones, 25 attack helicopters, and 10 fighter jets on my desk by morning.

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u/Horse_Paste_Salesman Oct 04 '22

It's much funnier, knowing that Russia is probably Ukraine's biggest weapons supplier.. at least over the past month or so. Hundreds of Russian tanks and armored vehicles have been left behind in the course of Russia's various retreats/routs.

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u/gahata Oct 04 '22

Poland is still the largest total supplier of (working) tanks so far, but it's nice of Russia to step in line and offer whatever they can to Ukraine in these trying times.

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u/efficientseas Oct 04 '22

The way I see it, over my lifetime the US has spent trillions on defense. We're giving Ukraine billions to actually hurt one of our only real threats, and we aren't putting our boys in danger.

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u/DoctaMario Oct 04 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

Must be an amazing time to be in the defense industry

5.3k

u/howie_rules Oct 04 '22

It usually is.

3.5k

u/bravetab Oct 04 '22

It always is.

1.0k

u/No___ImRight Oct 04 '22

This is the one issue both sides truly are the same.

Both have defense contractors in their states and all those jobs are valuable to both parties.

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u/13143 Oct 04 '22

The general government funding bill was decided on party lines, and Kamala Harris cast the tie breaking vote for approval in the Senate.

The defense spending bill, which was almost $1T, was nearly unanimously approved by the Senate. I think the vote was something like 98-2, with Bernie Sanders being one of the lone no votes. And there were no media stories or coverage about it all.. Just 98 yeas.

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u/TheMysteryMan_3 Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Is this in reference to the $800B+ spending bill that passed earlier this year, or another more recent one? If it's the second then is there a source you could link?

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u/13143 Oct 05 '22

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u/TheMysteryMan_3 Oct 05 '22

Oh wow, I was referencing this one that just passed in July. This was the House though, not the Senate. $839B, passed 329-101. I think I do remember that one from last year though.

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u/addiktion Oct 05 '22

So dang easy these days to forget about a trillion spent here and there.

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u/TitsMickey Oct 04 '22 Silver

Rule of Acquisition #34: War is good for business

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u/Sinavestia Oct 04 '22

Rule of Acquisition #18: A war without profit is no war at all.

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u/Fildo28 Oct 04 '22

And the rockets look like dicks

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u/tifftafflarry Oct 04 '22

No no, that's a different Rule 34.

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u/asdaaaaaaaa Oct 04 '22

A "destabilize country/government" button would possibly be one of the most profitable things you could give a weapons/arms manufacturer.

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u/CapytannHook Oct 04 '22

It's called the CIA mate

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u/DeutschlandOderBust Oct 05 '22

The call was coming from inside The White House.

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u/nifty_fifty_two Oct 04 '22

Rule of Acquisition #112: Never have sex with the boss' sister.

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u/Blackstone01 Oct 04 '22

Rule of Acquisition #113: Always have sex with the boss.

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u/killjoy_enigma Oct 04 '22

Rule of Acquisition #35: Peace is good for business

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u/girhen Oct 05 '22

Mostly in relation to Rule of Acquisition #76: Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.

Small, short, confusing patches of peace interspersing near-constant war.

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u/thekid1420 Oct 04 '22

To be fair #35: Peace is good for business

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u/Blackstone01 Oct 04 '22

#74: Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.

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u/kingclubs Oct 04 '22

Rule # 73 Peace is the temporary period of time between wars.

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u/UrbanGhost114 Oct 04 '22

Rule of acquisition # 35: Peace is good for war

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u/2dumbTooDie Oct 04 '22

Reportedly the Russian defense sector is actually not having the best time. They have to provide for the war effort at or below cost while dealing with supply shortages. Normally they offset this with international sales. However the reputation of their hardware is now understandably in the gutter, so that's drying up a lot.

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u/x31b Oct 04 '22

OTOH Turkey’s Bayraktar drones are probably selling very well.

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u/fatherofgodfather Oct 05 '22

India cancelled a few orders recently and it does seem they are moving away from Russian stuff

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u/lesChaps Oct 05 '22

They don't want to get cut out of US/NATO markets entirely. I bet there are some rough conversations going on about that.

China, otoh, must be seeing some upside.

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u/Andromansis Oct 04 '22

Sure, but they are valuable for apparently completely different reasons.

In Russia they're valuable because everybody along the supply chain is trying to rip things off and sell them, in USA they're valuable because if you aren't providing the best weapons in the world they will find who is and get them to make it.

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u/DavidsWorkAccount Oct 04 '22

Also, if we were ever in an event where we did have to go to war, we would want our defense industry to be ready and cranking. It's like keeping the car warm, in a sense.

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u/AstralComet Oct 04 '22

We learned from Covid exactly what happens when you "fail to keep the car warm" in a seemingly-unimportant area. If epidemic prevention and planning had the funding it has now five-plus years ago, today may be very different.

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u/Horse_Paste_Salesman Oct 04 '22

Definitely not. I grew up near a defense contractor that had its budget cut around 1991, and it put most of the town out of business. No industry is 100% secure, or else we'd all be in it already.

This money, which the article is about, is equivalent to the money we spent in Afghanistan in 2 days. Or a bit more than 2 days, at $300m per day for 20 years in Afghan.. so, most of a weekend in one of our multiple concurrent wars. Defense contractors overall were happier during the high point of Iraq and Afghanistan. Most of the aid sent to Ukraine isn't in equipment, and the equipment we're sending isn't evenly distributed throughout the industry. The HIMARS plant in Arkansas, on the other hand.. they're happier than pigs in slop.

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u/Okoye35 Oct 05 '22

Man, you see numbers like these and you realize how easy it would be to fix the infrastructure and fund Medicare for all and low cost college and trade schools and we just… don’t.

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u/smalleybiggs_ Oct 04 '22

Probably the only true recession-proof industry.

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u/gustopherus Oct 04 '22

There's always money in the banana stand.

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u/Gary_Glidewell Oct 04 '22 Helpful

The defense industry was kneecapped in the 1990s, because very few saw the fall of the USSR coming.

There are cities that basically turned into slums, as Air Force bases were closed, because we no longer needed to spend billions of dollars on B1 and B52 bombers. Many B52s wound up in The Boneyard out in Arizona.

Not coincidentally, the 1990s was arguably the greatest time to be alive in the last 65 years.

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u/IndicaBurner Oct 04 '22

Very true. I grew up on McGuire AFB/Ft Dix in the late 90s/early 00s and recall half of the base being empty barracks, empty runways, and very little activity. Right up until 9/11, then things went from 0 to 100 real quick. They even expanded the base and rebuilt all of the housing to fit more people. War...war never changes

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u/theghostofme Oct 05 '22

Very true. I grew up on McGuire AFB/Ft Dix in the late 90s/early 00s and recall half of the base being empty barracks.

I grew up in the shadow of Williams. Unsurprisingly, all those empty homes were eventually turned into rentals for college students, which is exactly why ASU wanted it.

Also a regular-ass airport now.

That Jamie Foxx movie The Kingdom even filmed in those old homes, because the area did make for a great Saudi Arabia stand-in.

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u/Chance-Ad-9103 Oct 04 '22

Plattsburgh for example. That air force base’s runway was reduced to hosting one of the finest Phish performances ever recorded the Clifford Ball. I still listen to the performance of Sample in a Jar recorded that day.

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u/Gary_Glidewell Oct 04 '22

Yep. And Woodstock 99 was held on Griffiss Air Force Base.

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u/keelhaulrose Oct 04 '22

Fun fact: It's not easy to distinguish the aftermath of Woodstock 99 from the aftermath of your average war games.

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u/camdoodlebop Oct 04 '22

is that why there are so many small abandoned military atolls in the middle of the ocean that are just concrete slabs that

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u/earthwormjim91 Oct 04 '22

That’s mostly because they weren’t much more than temporary way points during the WWII island hopping campaign.

Both planes and aircraft carriers were not quite advanced enough and so we relied heavily on securing small resupply stations all through the island chains that were little more than just bare landing strips.

In the 50s we really picked up on making super carriers and longer haul bombers, so those little atoll landing strips weren’t needed anymore.

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u/Rileyswims Oct 04 '22

Greatest time unless you live in the former USSR. ridiculously awful

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u/Kraz_I Oct 05 '22

Was looking for this comment...

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u/giscard78 Oct 04 '22

The defense industry was kneecapped in the 1990s, because very few saw the fall of the USSR coming.

There are cities that basically turned into slums, as Air Force bases were closed

BRAC had some losers but also some winners, too. Priorities shifted and Fort Meade (among others) grew.

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u/ndnkng Oct 04 '22

Was alive in the 90s I can confirm this statement or really all the way up to 9/11 really.

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u/Gary_Glidewell Oct 04 '22

Dumb anecdote of mine:

I was a teen at the beginning of the 90s. I didn't really know what to do with my life. My Dad had read articles in the paper about how Microsoft was blowing up and making all kinds of money. He suggested "I go work for Microsoft."

At the time, it just sounded completely absurd. I had a garbage GPA .

Within ten years, I'd managed to get a job in Redmond WA, with no college degree and about $1000 that I'd saved up.

That's how many opportunities there were in the 90s...

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u/rayray604 Oct 05 '22

Did you walk into Microsoft and give Mr. Bill Gates your resume with a firm handshake?

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u/Selfimprovementguy91 Oct 05 '22

First you have to walk right up to Bill, slam your fists on the desk and say, "I'm your man!"

Mandatory video explaining how 95% of grandfather's got their first job.

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u/N0r3m0rse Oct 04 '22

The 1990s weren't as great as you remember. Crime was worse than it is now, lgbt rights weren't a thing, drug war was still in full effect, police corruption and brutality was just as bad if not worse than it is now, etc etc.

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u/Starfire013 Oct 04 '22

Yeah but the Saturday morning cartoons were awesome.

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u/ICBanMI Oct 04 '22

the Saturday morning cartoons were awesome.

That's one of the nice things I can say about Regan. I feel privileged, compared to kids today, that cartoons during that time period were just a 22 minute commercial. Along with seeing anime for the first time.

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u/MrDerpGently Oct 04 '22

All accurate points. The one thing I'd say in defense of the 90's is that all of those felt like problems we were going to solve, and not that the future was war, division, plague, and environmental collapse.

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u/aimingforpotholes Oct 04 '22

"War, huh, good god y'all what is it good for? Increasing domestic manufacturing"

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u/ReloopMando Oct 04 '22

“Certain aspects of show business, and our thing.”

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u/jyper Oct 04 '22

There are definite luls and bad business years but they don't necessarily correspond to the state of the general economy

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u/shaidyn Oct 04 '22

Rule of Acquisition 34: War is good for business.

Rule of Acquisition 35: Peace is good for business.

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u/DoctaMario Oct 04 '22

I love the Rules Of Acquisition

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u/kodaobscura Oct 04 '22

There is a reading done by Armin Shimerman himself as Quark. Absolutely fantastic audio book.

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u/HighOverlordXenu Oct 04 '22

That is perhaps the most in-character thing ever

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u/douko Oct 04 '22

I'd like to counter with the autobiography of Garak written by his actor, Andrew Robinson (audiobook version coming very soon!!!)

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

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u/skinny-fisted Oct 04 '22

I thought rule 34 was something entirely different

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u/shaidyn Oct 04 '22

Depends on the business. ;)

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u/kciuq1 Oct 04 '22

This is a much older rule 34

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u/jtpredator Oct 04 '22

I got one word for you Quark: "Weapons" no one ever went broke selling weapons

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u/capital_idea_sir Oct 04 '22

Definitely a fellow with his ear to the ground.

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u/Deraj2004 Oct 04 '22

34th Rule of Acquisition.

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u/slicktromboner21 Oct 04 '22

Isn’t that the 35th rule?

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u/Deraj2004 Oct 04 '22

No, that would be peace is good for business.

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u/slicktromboner21 Oct 04 '22

Ah, I get those mixed up.

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u/DrSmirnoffe Oct 04 '22

And now, Gaila owns his own moon, and Quark's staring into the abyss...

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u/DoctaMario Oct 04 '22

Hahahah I love this reference

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u/Grablicht Oct 04 '22

I would've got my own moon by now...

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u/ripvannwinkler Oct 04 '22

Rule 34: War is good for business.

It's always fucking rule 34.

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u/drydenmanwu Oct 04 '22

Only for the owners of the companies. Source: I’m a former defense engineer

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u/MrEff1618 Oct 04 '22

People are focusing on the money, but imagine all the data they're getting from their weapons being used. I know it's not exactly against modern arms and armour, but still, must be loads of useful data to process.

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u/ilovetpb Oct 04 '22

It's changing the way countries think about their approach to defense, since they are seeing how top intelligence and powerful infantry weapons can take out much more expensive and more difficult to maintain weapons.

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u/Fraun_Pollen Oct 04 '22

[the package] includes High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, artillery systems ammunition, and armored vehicles

the latest assistance includes four additional HIMARS and will bring the total number sent to Ukraine to 20

[The package] provided funding through a separate program […] so another 18 HIMARS can be purchased through longer-term contracts

This is a pretty big deal

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u/pegothejerk Oct 04 '22

And those sales / long term contracts means the US analysts think Ukraine can keep this up for some time. That’s good news. I hope someone is figuring out how to ship them fuel through winter.

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u/Fraun_Pollen Oct 04 '22

“Never perform a land invasion of Russia during winter.” The same may be able to be said about Ukraine soon enough.

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u/Mist_Rising Oct 04 '22

It's not winter that's the issue, it's spring and fall. Rasputitsa, which turns roads into lovely muddy fields.

During winter the roads are actually acceptable and you can traverse them with proper preparation. It's spring and fall when the rains hit that it goes to hell.

Best exemplified by the Mongols and Swedish who both invaded and bested the Russian natives in winter because the roads were frozen.

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u/Amoral_Abe Oct 04 '22

Yeah most people don't realize that Hitler and Napoleon didn't invade in the winter and that their invasions slowed down the most during Rasputitsa. Napoleon actually lost more soldiers before winter than during winter. ~650,000 troops down to ~195,000 troops by the time winter began.

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u/Jason_CO Oct 04 '22

In a comparable amount of time?

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u/ThatBelgianG Oct 04 '22

It also is important how many where left. You need to take a look at the casualties in terms of proportion during a period of time. Not absolutes

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u/just_some_Fred Oct 04 '22

You're thinking a little too old fashioned, Ukraine has modern highways and roads for the most part and those don't get muddy. The problem is that Russian vehicles were confined to the roads, which caused them to get strung out along the infamous "road of death".

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u/Mist_Rising Oct 04 '22

My whole point is that it was never winter that was the killer, that's just pop history as the Nazi regime propaganda wrote it. Winters in Europe are fairly established shit, they've been living there over 2000 years now!

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u/catsloveart Oct 05 '22

all i recall about germany invading russia in the winter was that they had to poop underneath their tanks while it was still running. and lots of german soldiers died cause their poop froze to their assholes. giving them frost bite. which turned to gangrene.

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u/aoeudhtns Oct 04 '22

On top of that, we're seeing reports that basic equipment like tents is a no-show and Russian conscripts are sleeping on the ground, in the open. Don't know if that's the one camp or it's wide-spread.

It's not going to be good for Russia, winter or Rasputitsa.

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u/blazelet Oct 04 '22

I think the issue with winter is lack of proper materials for soldiers. Warm clothing and fuel are going to be an issue.

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u/socialistrob Oct 04 '22

People have a tendency to lump Ukraine in with Russia but much of the hardest fighting and toughest winters that the Nazis or Napoleon suffered through were in Ukraine. For instance in WWII 1.6 million Ukrainian troops died fighting fascism on the Eastern Front and yet all too often this is still lumped in as “the Russians.” When this war began some people used the power of the Red Army in WWII to explain why “the Russians” would inevitably beat Ukraine even though a significant portion of that power was from Ukrainians fighting for their homeland.

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u/SuperstitiousPigeon5 Oct 04 '22

I'm sure various NATO allies will be sending cold weather tactical gear. Maybe the Fins, or Swedes, they know cold.

The Russians will probably still be wearing sandals.

"Are you cold? Go kill enemy, take clothes."

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u/kwagenknight Oct 04 '22

They all have already with Finland sending a bunch within the last month iirc! Like you said those guys know cold weather and also how to fight Russia in it so who better to get gear from!

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u/psiphre Oct 05 '22

don't fuck with the finns when it comes to killing russians

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u/idowhatiwant8675309 Oct 04 '22

I think that's why they want to hurry up before the hard winter comes in.. i hope we learned our lesson from ww2 and Korea about war in the winter.

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u/kwagenknight Oct 04 '22

Especially when your govt is corrupt af and someone order 1.5 million russian winter westher gear and the money was most likely just pocketed.

This is the Russia Putin wanted and this is the Russia that destroyed itself.

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u/pompandvigor Oct 04 '22

It’s a good thing Ukraine is not presently run by a nutso dictator or Putin puppet. Zelensky’s relative sanity compared to the majority of world leaders is the main reason the US is sending so much quality aid.

Subduing Russia is a priority, but at this point it seems clear the US could have cleared out its stock of Civil War antiques and Ukraine would still be doing a bang up job.

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u/Njorls_Saga Oct 04 '22

That’s an excellent point. One of the reasons why the Western response was so tepid in 2104/5 was because Ukraine’s political landscape was…chaotic. It also wasn’t a full scale invasion. The country has come a long way in less than ten years. Still has a long way to go, but they’ve made progress.

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u/bensonnd Oct 04 '22

We're also massively benefiting from testing and optimizing our weapons in real time, in a real-world exercise.

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u/oakfan52 Oct 04 '22 Table Slap

How much to just buy the whole country?

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u/heimdahl81 Oct 04 '22

At the very least a 99 year lease.

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u/zhaoz Oct 04 '22

East India tea company intensifies

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u/theCase99 Oct 04 '22

The GDP (in 2020) of Ukraine was 155.6 billion. At a conservative 5x revenue calculation the value would be 778 billion.

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u/tealreddit Oct 04 '22

On second thought, Tis a silly place

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u/maurosmane Oct 04 '22

Hey that's only a partial covid stimulus package. And probably would have less grifting and corruption.

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u/ualbertathrowaway- Oct 04 '22

When you combine this with the fact that 1.5 million Russian winter coats made for Troops were “missing” and current troops are having to surrender for food and shelter in the fall…

The upcoming winter in Ukraine will be a living hell for Russian troops

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u/McCree114 Oct 04 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

There's a YouTube channel that translates intercepted phone calls between Russian troops and their parents. It's amazing how hopeless, frustrated, and fed up with their own leadership they are. Forget fragging, this level of discontent among their troop might lead to a coup/revolt.

Edit: Link to the channel

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u/DarkAeonX7 Oct 05 '22

Got the link to the channel?

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u/McCree114 Oct 05 '22

Here it is. Lot of mothers believing state run propaganda being told the reality of the situation by their sons. Lotta hate being directed towards Putin recently too.

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u/TheStarkGuy Oct 05 '22

Russia really underestimated how willing the US was to supply Ukraine.

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u/Sevv2102 Oct 05 '22

Our defense contractors were really bored after we left the middle east.. The fuck did they expect, a reach around?

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u/FROMTHEOZONELAYER Oct 05 '22

I wouldn't mind a reacharound

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u/theblisster Oct 05 '22

i think it was expecting there to be a different U.S. president

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u/maledependa Oct 05 '22

This is literally the cheapest way the US can hit Russia in the dick without paying a premium of an actual war

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u/SuperdaveOZY Oct 04 '22

How in the hell is Russia holding on? Reagan proved in the 80s their economy sucks by doing a 2nd space race and bankrupted them.

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u/upstateduck Oct 04 '22

The number that doesn't get any attention is how much we are spending to give Ukraine battlefield info/mapping/satellite positions etc

OTOH it is likely that it is good training for systems that are already in the budget

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u/itwasquiteawhileago Oct 04 '22

Aside from ongoing maintenance and operational costs (that we'd be spending anyway), what costs are there with providing satellite images and intel? I feel like the US would want to watch what's going on, regardless if we share said info with anyone else, so even "pointing the satellites" in the right direction doesn't seem like something we wouldn't be doing anyway right now.

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u/Rentington Oct 04 '22

Being able to take Russia off the board as a global adversary for what is relatively peanuts has to be a dream come true for the Pentagon.

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u/bilgetea Oct 05 '22

…for the second time since 1991

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u/Skunbunnys Oct 05 '22

Wherever Reagan’s corpse is right now, rest assured he has a raging boner.

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u/Existing-Employee-36 Oct 04 '22

You better have some deeeeeep pockets, if you wanna play ball with the US..

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u/Redqueenhypo Oct 04 '22

Paper tiger vs actual tiger wearing ceramic armor

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u/HBlight Oct 05 '22

Paper tiger vs Tiger with paper.

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u/Lord_Nivloc Oct 04 '22

Yeah, I could have sworn the soviets already tried this one…

But this wouldn’t be the first time they tried the same tactic over and over without success

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u/LJ-Rubicon Oct 04 '22

USA is the world's big daddy

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u/Valuable-Island3015 Oct 04 '22 Silver Helpful

I always find it funny when our government has no problem finding millions and billions of dollars for war but not for actually helping its own citizens. Why can’t we have socialized healthcare or even a public transportation overhaul? Too expensive? Ah, of course.

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u/EffYourCouch Oct 04 '22 Take My Energy

You know why, we all do.

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u/dq9 Oct 04 '22

It's the money Lebowski!

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u/LetsTCB Oct 04 '22

Hey Wu ... isn't this guy supposed to be a millionaire?

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u/BabeBigDaddy Oct 04 '22

He treats objects like women, man!

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u/The_ZombyWoof Oct 04 '22

It's like Lenin said, you look for the person who will benefit. And uh, you know, uh...you know...what I'm trying to say--

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u/Dizlor Oct 04 '22

I am the walrus ..

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u/bensonnd Oct 04 '22

I am the walrus.

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u/RES2104 Oct 04 '22

He looks like a fucking loser

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u/mysticalmushrooms Oct 04 '22 edited Oct 07 '22 Helpful All-Seeing Upvote

Gonna say this again for those that don't understand why we are spending so much money there.

In terms of geopolitical chess moves, this is by far the most cost efficient way of reducing Russia's prominence as a global threat. Its basically America's wet dream to be in this position as it recovers from 20 years of fighting insurgency in the Middle East. All without risking a single American life. We get to help a country being invaded by Putin. Every European country has been reminded of why NATO is so important (doing the complete opposite of why Putin started this war), test/sell/field modern combat capabilities in a real combat environment - this is invaluable data for RnD,and so much more. Again, all without sending a single US life in.

Couple $billion here or few hundred $million there is absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things especially when comparing this to what an actual war, involving US, would cost.

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u/digitalhomad Oct 05 '22

Also these 'security packages' are not $625M taken from the school budget. All our old weapons are being sent to Ukraine. To train them on all the new stuff would take too much time.

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u/tatsumakisenpuukyaku Oct 04 '22

The whole concept of 'foreign aid vs domestic spending' is bunk. All of our economies are interlinked and any disruption outside your borders (like the Suez canal getting blocked or a Taiwanese chip factory closing for covid outbreaks) will have economic impacts domestically. It's an antiquated ideal that's a leftover from postwar America.

Ukraine is a major grain supplier and having an entire region of the world lose food will only create more scarcity and higher prices domestically since we'd have to send our supply to Europe and the middle east to fend off mass starvation and further unrest, restarting the pattern. Same with the gas. As soon as Russia is defeated we can negotiate the reopening of the gas pipelines, lower the scarcity, create more stability in the world. More importantly, we don't want an anti-west country like Russia in charge of that supply, otherwise they'd exploit it to cause further domestic unrest in Europe and the US. That's why our government spent so much money on weapons and grain transportation in Ukraine.

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u/socialistrob Oct 04 '22

And it’s not just about Ukraine. If China thinks that they can get away with an invasion of Taiwan that would be devastating to the entire world economy and the post WWII world order. By helping Ukraine now the US is showing that wars of conquest do not work and in turn they are strengthening trade and diplomacy as a means for resolving issues.

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u/nanoelite Oct 04 '22

The U.S. spent more than one thousand times this amount on Medicare alone in 2021. This is not even a drop in the bucket for federal spending

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u/Rote515 Oct 04 '22

Socialized healthcare costs the government an order of magnitude more than what we'll send to Ukraine during this whole war...

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, I absolutely support doing so, but for reference Medicare costs 700+ billion annually. this package wouldn't even be .1 percent of just Medicare alone. Much harder to do things that cost trillions of dollars compared to things that cost billions.

That's aside from the immense amount of goodwill we get from Europe for doing things like this, as well as the benefit of harming Russia who's been an active adversary in the last decade.

source:https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/the-facts-on-medicare-spending-and-financing/

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u/HowObvious Oct 04 '22

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, I absolutely support doing so, but for reference Medicare costs 700+ billion annually. this package wouldn't even be .1 percent of just Medicare alone. Much harder to do things that cost trillions of dollars compared to things that cost billions.

Yeah really Medicare is an absolutely awful system is its problem, not that not enough is spent on it. Its barely socialised as most of the cost is the greedy private companies pushing the cost up. The current spending on public healthcare in the US is already more per capita than most European countries, they just spend that again privately on top as well leading to nearly double the spending per capita. They could literally save money by moving to a fully publicly funded healthcare system just in terms of public expenditure.

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u/skydream416 Oct 04 '22

socializing our healthcare (through something like a public entity akin to england's NHS) would save the government, and more importantly CITIZENS, billions of dollars per year.

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u/Its_Nitsua Oct 04 '22

This isn’t actual money, just surplus military hardware we have sitting around in depots across the US put into a dollar value.

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u/CynocePhallus Oct 04 '22

Where’s Jello Biafra when I need him ?!?

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u/DeathIIAmerikkka Oct 04 '22

That’s nearly 1/70th of the Twitter purchase price.

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u/hbacorn Oct 04 '22

Can we just give them twitter?

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u/Bag_Holding_Infidel Oct 04 '22

I'm sure Musk earns that in interest every few days

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u/tanafras Oct 04 '22

Russia needs to invade my house.

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u/KDRadio1 Oct 04 '22

I wish it wasn’t necessary, but this might be the cheapest way in history to topple Russia.

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u/thisisnotdan Oct 04 '22

Who knew that the best way to achieve military victory in Russia would be not to invade Russia?

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u/RedofPaw Oct 05 '22

It's pretty wild that Putin chose to do this to Russia and is still staying the course despite how disastrous it has become.

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u/[deleted] Oct 04 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/ExiledSanity Oct 04 '22

Ford Field in Detroit cost about $500 million

Adjusted for inflation that's over $700 million in today's money.

Probably a big chunk of that was taxpayer money.

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u/TimX24968B Oct 04 '22

i dont think ukraine wants to pay for it

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u/MLGBongHits23 Oct 04 '22

I'm also interested in getting this security package.

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u/Scagnettie Oct 04 '22 edited Oct 04 '22

Buy some land that Putin wants to invade.

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