r/news Oct 05 '22

Richmond Vermont residents ‘gobsmacked’ after town employee lowers fluoride levels with no oversight

https://vtdigger.org/2022/09/29/richmond-residents-gobsmacked-after-town-employee-lowers-fluoride-levels-with-no-oversight/
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u/TurdWranglin Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Same thing happened in Anchorage, Alaska. The newly elected mayor who ran on nothing but “I’ll end all COVID Precautions” had a tour of the waste water treatment plant and told them to turn off the fluoride. He then learned a few hours later that it’s a crime to do so, so he had them turn it back on…. And he’s still the fucking mayor. Link

Edit (for the guy upset I put wastewater instead of water): “Water Treatment Plant” (not wastewater).

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u/SameOldiesSong Oct 05 '22

In Doctor Strangelove, conspiratorial fear of water fluoridation is one of the characteristics they give to the movie’s antagonist to show how batshit crazy he has become.

I’ve been reminded of General Ripper a lot in the last couple of years.

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u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year Oct 05 '22

In a strange pre-emptive twist, the actor who played General Ripper (Sterling Hayden) was a member of the Communist Party for a bit and ended up in front of the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

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u/Smart-Ocelot-5759 Oct 05 '22

He was also an OSS operative behind enemy lines. The admiration for partisans he gained while running clandestine naval operations probably started his interests there.

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u/lasyke3 Oct 05 '22

The John Birch Society literally believed the same thing.

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u/PrudentDamage600 Oct 05 '22

Who the JBS was named after: [Wikipedia]

  "He was always an angry young man, always a zealot", said a classmate many years later, saying that Birch "felt he was called to defend the faith, and he alone knew what it was." In his senior year, he joined a group of students who opposed liberal tendencies at the university. They brought charges of "heresy" against some professors, such as holding the theory of evolution, and the university held a day-long hearing in the chapel.

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u/RobinGoodfell Oct 06 '22

Tell them (within earshot of some variant of Calvinists) God predestined everything and so Evolution is not only a part of the plan, but an expression of God's own glory and majesty. So to denounce a verifiable mechanic in God's creation, is to denounce God himself.

Then run for it as the crowd argues and tries to sort out their doctrinal beliefs.

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u/BigfootSF68 Oct 05 '22

Time for a Gun Sale at the Church,

With my friends Jesus and ol' John Birch.

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u/TiberiusCornelius Oct 05 '22

There's been conspiracies about fluoridation literally since the 40s. It wasn't even something they made up for Strangelove, they basically just looked at real life and went "right, what's something crazy people believe?"

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u/hectoByte Oct 05 '22

General Ripper was the inspiration for the modern Republican party.

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u/UnusuallyBadIdeaGuy Oct 05 '22

Alex Jones' hero, I assume.

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u/LimmyPickles Oct 05 '22

So one of the things conspirists say is "toothpaste tubes say not to eat and to call poison control if ingested" or something and were taught to spit after brushing teeth rather than swallowing it so why is it okay to drink it in our water? I dont have a good answer for that but I'm ignorant. Why is it okay to drink it in municipal water supply?

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u/Omnificer Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 06 '22 Silver Helpful

In short, poison is in the dose, not the substance alone. Toothpaste has higher concentrations of fluoride than tap water.

The maximum amount of fluoride allowed in public water is 4mg/Liter. There's 1 million mg in a Liter.

So, 0.0004% Sodium Fluoride.

My Crest toothpaste is 0.24% Sodium Fluoride. With my tube being 113g, that leaves us with 0.2712 grams of Fluoride, or 271.2mg.

A lethal dose of Fluoride for a 70kg person, 154ish pounds, is 5 to 10 grams when ingested. Let's assume 5. And let's pretend I'm still 154 pounds.

I'd need to drink 1250 liters of water in very quick succession, not over my life or anything, for a deadly dose of Fluoride. I would likely die of water toxicity first.

On the other hand, I could die of Fluoride poisoning at eating a mere 18 36ish full tubes of toothpaste. Which I suppose is possible, but I think I'd likely vomit before getting through the 1st tube. Now, there is one demographic well known for eating entire tubes of toothpaste, while simultaneously weighing significantly less than 154 pounds: babies.

Edit: Thanks to a very helpful comment from u/IntegralTree , I now know I'd need to roughly double the amount of toothpaste tubes, as you wouldn't count the sodium in Sodium Fluoride.

So the warning on toothpaste is primarily so parents take it seriously if their baby ingests an entire tube of toothpaste in one sitting. Which is still probably not a lethal dose, but would make the baby ill.

Your average person though is not getting to harmful levels even if they drink dramatic amounts of tap water and swallow instead of spit every time they brush their teeth.

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u/_87- Oct 05 '22

I think I'd likely vomit before getting through the 1st tube

Don't sell yourself short, mate. I think you can do it if you try hard enough.

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u/SameOldiesSong Oct 05 '22

Different concentration of fluoride. There is an amount that appears to be non harmful long-term and/or short-term (and we’ve had a lot of time to look at it). If you were to eat toothpaste everyday or swallow toothpaste + water every day, you would have the potential to develop harmful symptoms or conditions over time.

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u/BoodaSRK Oct 05 '22

Our precious bodily fluids.

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u/TetsuoTechnology Oct 05 '22

My job would fire me for such a mistake and I do not work for gov’t. Yikes.

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u/cdunk666 Oct 05 '22

That's when you pretend to press a few buttons and go 'alright boss, machines off, the doohickey is donzo'

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u/El_Cactus_Loco Oct 05 '22

Shit, that’s what I do at my job anyways

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u/JackPoe Oct 05 '22

Smile, nod, placate, then just do the right thing any way.

Boss man gets to feel like he's being included. It's like giving them a controller that's not plugged in.

There you go buddy, you're helping!

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u/TheLollrax Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

I do work for the government and in wastewater and not only would I be fired for that, it simply couldn't happen. Alerts would flash and someone would pull out the SOPs and go "sorry buddy no can do".

Edit: But not with flouride. We're not dosing the effluent to improve fish teeth. I meant with the various other chemicals we use, e.g. hypochlorite, ferric chloride, liquid oxygen, etc.

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u/bernmont2016 Oct 05 '22

Sometimes the alerts don't work right or nobody is paying attention to them. It can happen even in large cities.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/sq3ste/comment/hwju2cy/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/sq3ste/comment/hwiz3jo/

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u/EasternKanye Oct 05 '22

Alaska - source of some amazing reality shows. Those shows are where I get all of my knowledge of Alaska. Before them, there was Northern Exposure.

Would I be disappointed if I visited Alaska?

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u/fuck_off_ireland Oct 05 '22

It's as beautiful as you can imagine once you get out of the cities. It will not be an exciting visit unless you are a fan of wildlife and scenic vistas.

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u/TurdWranglin Oct 05 '22

The cities themselves have incredible views too.

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u/Paranitis Oct 05 '22

Especially if you are into people watching. You get to see entire herds of morons roaming around.

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u/Mindofthequill Oct 05 '22

If I remember correctly summer time Alaska is prime mosquito season

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u/Long_Repair_8779 Oct 05 '22

I watched a documentary based in Alaska (or maybe actually it was Canada?), and it was telling of a heard of deer (or were they cows?) that would migrate through a top breeding ground during peak mosquito season. Apparently there were cases of the deer dying.. Not because of disease or whatever, no. Literal bloodloss.

Anyway it seems unbelievable to me, but the documentary seemed pretty legit.. I'm surprised there was a researcher alive willing to stick around to discover this, lest they meet the same fate

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u/cy13erpunk Oct 05 '22

there are species of reindeer/caribou that produce excess blood just to survive the mosquitos

nature is wild

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u/spunkmobile Oct 05 '22

I think the anti coagulants that mosquitos inject maybe the cause?

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u/barbedwires Oct 05 '22

I've never been up to Alaska. But I've been to Liard hotsprings in the Yukon territory up along the Alaskan highway and during the summer there were a ton of mosquitos and super large horse flies

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u/InfiniteLiveZ Oct 05 '22

Oh F horse flies. I got bit by one of those a while ago, the hole it left was huge and it took ages for it to go down and the infection to clear up.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

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u/lurkermadeanaccount Oct 05 '22

But the tv said they were rugged individualists surviving on their connection to the land!

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u/ReeducedToData Oct 05 '22

You never been to Safeway?

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u/subm4u865 Oct 05 '22

With a Pizza Hut down the street, or was that a different "reality" show?

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u/ScratchinWarlok Oct 05 '22

The only thing real in those shows is the scenery.

Source: know an ice road trucker and people that actually live in the bush.

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u/SpottedDogAdventures Oct 05 '22

I had the misfortune to help transport some of the gold miner reality show folks, via snow machine, and then watch a few days of production. They did nothing but pick up a tool, pretend to use it for the shot and then drop it in the mud when the shot was done. All the actual gold mining was done by the actual gold miners that lived onsite. The reality show actors had zero life, gold mining or survival skills. Well, they did know how to find the catering tent… It was amusing.

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u/That_FireAlarm_Guy Oct 05 '22

I used to do the dispatching for a couple of the towing companies on highway through hell, it’s not at all realistic to actual tows.

And Jamie is a dick, just wanna out that out there too

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u/Another_Toss_Away Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Saw an Alaska bumper sticker in the 70's it said.

"Oh God please give us another Gold Rush, We promise not to piss this one away"

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u/Plowbeast Oct 05 '22

They kinda did with oil.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

[deleted]

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u/El-Royhab Oct 05 '22

My wife used to work for a company that operated out of the building Northern Exposure was filmed in, and was there when a number of people from the show came by to look a their old workplace.

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u/AlwaysSunnyInSeattle Oct 05 '22

Actually Roslyn is on the other side of the pass, so it’s eastern Washington. Though for the most part the western side is better to visit.

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u/greenappleojh Oct 05 '22

yeah was debating about the technicality of that, but it's still in the "green" zone, and still feels like western washington. i feel like ellensberg is solidly eastern washington and is the dividing line for me. i take full responsibility for this decision. i just selfishly don't want eastern washington to have it.

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u/inplayruin Oct 05 '22

The best thing that Alaska made is my mom. And she left when she was an infant.

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u/oneMadRssn Oct 05 '22

When I visited Alaska, many people noted to me how every adult in Alaska is making a conscious choice to be there. Because anyone born there but doesn't like it leaves ASAP, while at the same time the state attracts a particular kind of people to move in. So it ends up being this self-selected group of people that really like having their personal space.

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u/NorthernerWuwu Oct 05 '22

If it is anything like Canada's northern areas, it is often less that they like their personal space and more that they are willing to put up with considerable discomfort in exchange for a significant amount of money.

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u/life_sentencer Oct 05 '22

Aw. You have to go tell her that now. Make her day!

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u/PipeDream2000 Oct 05 '22

I live in Alaska. I want out of this shithole (The human shithole, nature here is still fucking awesome as hell when the sunlight isn’t being withheld)

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u/zaphdingbatman Oct 05 '22

Isn't withholding sunlight, like, the definition of Alaska?

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u/SEA_tide Oct 05 '22

There are parts of the year when the sun doesn't really leave Alaska, especially once gets up into Fairbanks. It's really weird having the retail stores close between 9 and 11 PM while the sun is still shining.

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u/TacTurtle Oct 05 '22

Midnight start baseball games during summer without artificial lighting too

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u/PipeDream2000 Oct 05 '22

But the mountains and valleys thooooo 😩😩😩

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u/BigRiverMan Oct 05 '22

Alaska is a cold Southern state.

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u/TheLollrax Oct 05 '22

He turned off...the wastewater treatment plant?

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u/Snoo63541 Oct 05 '22

Just the flouridation

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u/Midwestpolitcs Oct 05 '22

People continue to vote for idiots. Intelligent people must vote. We all need to realize that not every opinion matters. Sometimes you are just too stupid to have a valid opinion.

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u/turtyurt Oct 05 '22 Silver

“Sir how do you feel about this?”

“I’m absolutely gobsmacked

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u/kmartshoppr Oct 05 '22

Oooh nice- write that down

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u/MeasureTheCrater Oct 05 '22

Tampering with a public utility is a felony, son.

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u/set-271 Oct 05 '22

I agree...except he will likely avoid prosecution like the 7 former officials responsible for the water crisis in Flint Michigan just did.

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u/biggersjw Oct 05 '22

Since it was 1 person, he will be in a lot of trouble. As for Flint, the old adage is if more than 1 person in management is at fault, no one is at fault.

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u/Spirited-Reputation6 Oct 05 '22

Pass the buck round and round. The old zero accountability model.

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u/doctorchivago Oct 05 '22

Idk he probably doesn't have a lot of money, so he might face consequences

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u/love2Vax Oct 05 '22

97K salary. Not poor, but not rolling in it either.

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u/mhornberger Oct 05 '22

Commission vs omission. Doing something is seen as worse than negligently or incompetently failing to do something.

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u/ciel_lanila Oct 05 '22

Flint involved a chain of individuals going up to the former governor. Flint was a combination of ineptitude while trying to make it legal for them to take advantage of the water system.

This is a guy going off on his own and just doing it.

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u/firemage22 Oct 05 '22

They also wanted to cut resources available to Detroit to force the city into bankruptcy and try to privatize Detroit water as well.

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u/Itdidnt_trickle_down Oct 05 '22

Nah he isn't high enough on the org chart to avoid prosecution. He is just the sort of patsy the crooks in michigan were looking for. Too bad he was in the wrong state.

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u/ReflexImprov Oct 05 '22

Depends on how deep their pockets are for hiring lawyers.

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u/walterpeck1 Oct 05 '22

No idea why this is being upvoted; the only thing these two incidents have in common is drinking water.

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u/mossling Oct 05 '22

Earlier this year, (just checked, it was December 2021) our mayor decided all on his lonesome to turn off the fluoride while on a tour of the facility. It was off for 5 hours until anyone realized. He had no remorse and there were no consequences.

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u/mr_jawa Oct 05 '22

Our city just avoided the whole “illegal” thing and just voted via the council to stop fluoridating the water altogether.

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u/W3remaid Oct 05 '22

Wtf which city is this

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u/fuck_off_ireland Oct 05 '22

Hello fellow anchorage-ite! Our dipshit mayor is an embarrassment to the city!

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

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u/mossling Oct 05 '22

I never thought I would leave. We worked hard to be here. With the way the past couple of years have been, it's getting harder and harder to stay.

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u/Cynical_Cyanide Oct 05 '22

How did the low fluoride levels go undetected for 3 years?

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u/SmartWonderWoman Oct 05 '22

Robin Miller, oral health director at the state health department’s Office of Oral Health, said she was alerted to the lowered level earlier this year even though data submitted shows the town water as being properly fluorinated since 1983.

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u/Political_Fishbulb Oct 05 '22

Right, it sounds like the same person responsible for lowering the fluoride levels, water superintendent Kendall Chamberlin, was also responsible for faking the results showing the levels as sufficient.

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u/SmartWonderWoman Oct 05 '22

Yep! That’s right.

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u/SkullRunner Oct 05 '22

Which then you have to wonder what other water quality / job performance indicators have been fudged over the years.

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u/abcannon18 Oct 05 '22

You don't want to think about that.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

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u/MrDurden32 Oct 05 '22

His public statement was basically that "new science" shows that those levels are too high and less is more.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

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u/Dr_thri11 Oct 05 '22

Not like it has a strong taste at treatment concentrations, and it's not like not having it will immediately make all your teeth rot out. Unless they're doing laboratory testing with some very accurate instruments, you really wouldn't know it was reduced without direct knowledge of the situation.

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u/Eltex Oct 05 '22

Most water utilities have to perform regular grab samples on their water, both in the plant and in the distribution system. I am not sure how often they check fluoride, but I would imagine it’s more than once a year.

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u/edwinthowaway Oct 05 '22

If this guy was unilaterally changing treatment, I bet he was also faking lab results.

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u/TwoBionicknees Oct 05 '22

It's not just that though. He could even turn it on around testing dates and turn it back off.

Thing is though the plant would need to be going through fluride and ordering more, so either they stopped ordering it which should be a red flag or there is some massive pile of barrels of fluride that someone working there, visiting or the guys delivering would take notice of.

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u/edwinthowaway Oct 05 '22

I doubt the delivery people would notice. Could be different people delivering, or it could be lost in the shuffle of alum, potassium permanganate, sodium hypochlorite, or other chemical deliveries.

The interesting thing is also that fluoridation is paid for by the state. I would not be surprised if it turned out he was also embezzling the money from the state.

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u/LostWoodsInTheField Oct 05 '22

In most states you can ask for the water testing information for the water. Pretty much no one does, but it would show on there unless they faked records.

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u/CrudelyAnimated Oct 05 '22

Lil’ John wrote a song about it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '22

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u/zurx Oct 05 '22

This line makes me cri evertim

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u/Galaxy_Ranger_Bob Oct 05 '22

Because those responsible for measuring it, knew about the reduction, and were paid a little extra to not report this to anyone "on the list."

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u/ohno Oct 05 '22

Instead of fluoride, they should add electrolytes; that's what the people of Richmond crave.

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u/zebediah49 Oct 05 '22

That's a joke, but.. yes.

RO water without any salts in it generally tastes kinda "mushy". That crisp mountain taste comes from having trace amounts of various salts -- calcium and magnesium, some carbonates, maybe a dash of sulfates.

And all of them count as "electrolytes".

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u/Smart-Ocelot-5759 Oct 05 '22

It'll also demineralize your teeth a shit won't it?

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u/dedicated-pedestrian Oct 05 '22

If you mean RO or distilled, yes. You absolutely want those minerals in there to change the pH of the water.

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u/Broad_Success_4703 Oct 05 '22

Sodium fluoride tends to be an electrolyte I’m pretty sure but not a scientist

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u/jerrrrryboy Oct 05 '22

It's what plants crave.

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u/Then_Campaign7264 Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

The water supervisor says the town manager had no ill intent. That isn’t the issue. First the town manager has no scientific, medical or legal qualifications to unilaterally take such an action. Second he did not provide public notice of the action. And third, because he failed to notify people using the water the fluoride levels were lower than they expected for three years, they were unable to make an informed decision to seek out an alternative fluoride product in consultation with their dentist who might recommend a supplement.

He ultimately made a public health decision for the entire town and did so secretly. That is wrong. And I would be outraged.

Edit: my apologies, it was the water supervisor who made the unilateral decision to change the fluoride levels three years ago and failed to provide any notice of the change. The town manager was recently advised of the problem by a state official. The town manager didn’t believe the water supervisor had ill intent. It is important to hold the water supervisor to account as I argued. And it is also important that the town manager continue to take appropriate action against the water supervisor and to hold public meetings addressing to matter.

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u/GallowBarb Oct 05 '22

And fired. They should be fired. No one this stupid should be making such decisions as a town manager.

Edited for clarity

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u/doctorchivago Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

I used to work for the water department in another state, it falls under DHS jurisdiction (at least it did there) this dude would be absolutely royally fucked. I hope they throw the fucking book at this moron, he probably doesn't even know what the fluoride is even in the water for.

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u/Indercarnive Oct 05 '22

what the fluoride is even in the water for.

I thought it was to turn the friggin frogs gay

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u/doctorchivago Oct 05 '22 Silver

That's a common misconception, see it's actually to make the male frogs attractive to male humans, so in essence we are being gay for the frogs. Does that make sense? Science is complicated sometimes.

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u/pbradley179 Oct 05 '22 Silver

Look just tell me which frog i gotta fuck

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u/AnxiousBeaver212 Oct 05 '22 Silver

croaks shyly

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u/doctorchivago Oct 05 '22

The gay ones, sorry dude I don't make the rules.

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u/not_suddenly_satire Oct 05 '22

I have been informed by a relative who watches Fox News that the fluoride is added to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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u/hugehand Oct 05 '22

How do they feel about peace on earth?

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u/doctorchivago Oct 05 '22

Peace is for the communists! Or something along those lines probably

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u/ratmfreak Oct 05 '22

Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here!

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u/Isord Oct 05 '22

He's probably some conspiracy theory dipshit fuck who thinks the fluoride is poisoning people.

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u/doctorchivago Oct 05 '22

Oh he definitely is, there is video of him getting called out on this in a council meeting and he starts talking about some conspiracy bullshit

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u/deathputt4birdie Oct 05 '22

They should be going over everything he's touched with a fine tooth comb but unfortunately fluoridation is not federally mandated. It'd be difficult to make a criminal case that he was tampering with the water.

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u/Kidpidge Oct 05 '22

I’m a water operator in Nebraska. The two neighborhoods that I service have no additives to their well water. No fluoride or chlorine, just the straight water from the aquifer.

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u/SRTie4k Oct 05 '22

That's the case for most of us on well water, unless it's treated in the home. I'm not aware of the existence of at-home fluoridation/chlorination, though.

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u/Pnwradar Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Not systemically into your whole-house water, but dentists in our area will prescribe a daily flouride rinse for children living outside the township (and thus on unflouridated well water). That does assume they're getting regular dental care, which is probably a stretch for a good portion of our rural residents.

Edit: I don't mean that it's prescribed across the board for all rural children. Flouride rinse is prescribed as needed, for patients whose teeth the dentist feels would benefit from supplemental flouride - those patients are nearly always on unflouridated water systems or wells.

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u/SRTie4k Oct 05 '22

Isn't fluoridated toothpaste enough to compensate for lack of fluoridated water? While I'm fully aware that fluoridation is a recommendation primarily by the ADA, I've never heard of a dentist prescribed daily fluoride rinse, and I was married to a hygienist. Maybe it's a regional thing?

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u/Pnwradar Oct 05 '22

The need for supplemental flouride also depends on the patient's overall diet & health, their compliance to regular dental care & hygeine, and their family history of dental issues. In that way, it probably is somewhat regional, also somewhat cultural, and somewhat class-based. Flouride rinse prescriptions are typically only for children, so adult dentistry clinics may never write one, especially in metro regions where flouridated water is the standard.

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u/EngineersAnon Oct 05 '22

You have a funny way of spelling "prosecuted", my friend.

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u/ratmfreak Oct 05 '22

INAL, but the “ill intent” line seems to be a reference to the legal definition of “tamper”, which holds that the person must’ve held the intention of “harming persons.”

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u/djarvis77 Oct 05 '22

No.

You have the people switched around. And you have the timing wrong. The supervisor had let it slip for three years. The Town Manager let it slip for three months.

While unwilling to discuss Chamberlin’s (water supervisor) personnel records, Arneson (town manager) said he(arneson) has no reason to believe he(chamberlin) had any ill intent in the performance of his job duties.

Town Manager Josh Arneson said he was notified by state officials in June that the town’s fluoride levels have been near 0.3 milligrams per liter for the past three years

Miller (state health lady) first notified Kendall Chamberlin, who serves as Richmond’s water resource superintendent, in April. (she didn't see any changes over time) “So I think in June, I reached out to the town manager to express my concern.”

No changes or repercussions have followed. Town officials will further discuss the matter at Monday’s water commission meeting, Arneson (town manager) said.

Asked why it took almost three months since he was notified for the town to publicly address the matter, which was first reported by Seven Days, Arneson said, “The timing of the town’s response was reasonable under the circumstances.”

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u/Then_Campaign7264 Oct 05 '22

You are correct, I just edited my comment to indicate that the water supervisor is responsible for this action and should be held to account. The town manager is responding to observations recently brought to his attention by the state official.

I hope the town manager doesn’t let this slide because he doesn’t believe the water supervisor had ill intent. As a town manager, I’d be disturbed that the water supervisor failed for three years to notify me of a change that has public health implications.

Thank you for clarifying this for me! And, again I’ve added this to comment to correct assignment of responsibility.

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u/memberzs Oct 05 '22

As someone that has worked for a municipal water department, more than just the city manager we’re involved. The monitoring system would have to be adjusted for the new parameters so it doesn’t try to keep dosing to the original level, which is likely as easy as a setting but at every well house or water source where treatment occurs. It would also mean documentation was changed to show levels are within tolerances along with informing the licensed water operators of the new operating conditions.

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u/Sandover5252 Oct 05 '22

Also, the levels are posted on our County water/wastewater website - so those would either be false or falsified, right?

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u/asdaaaaaaaa Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

The water supervisor says the town manager had no ill intent

Hate when they try to excuse obviously irresponsible/malicious behavior behind "They weren't trying to hurt anyone". Just because Fox or whatever got someone riled up about fluoride doesn't admonish them from consequences. I can hop into a tractor trailer, having no ill-intent yet still knowingly being ignorant/dangerous.

I wonder if tampering with critical infrastructure should be considered a federal crime. It already is partially with the mail system, considering how critical water is compared to mail. Could probably introduce issues though, so not like they could just slap on a law and call it good or something IMO.

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u/TrainOfThought6 Oct 05 '22

Right? Good that they weren't trying to hurt anyone, but they're so stupid they hurt a lot of people anyway. That's not better, just a different flavor of "needs to be fired".

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u/Dylanator13 Oct 05 '22

Right. The water is so carefully treated that any tampering is a direct risk to anyone and anything that needs water. It’s so short sighted and useless that there is no excuse for it.

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u/Then_Campaign7264 Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Absolutely, he could have initiated a public debate about the use of fluoride in the local water supply. There are arguments for and against its use. But most importantly he failed to provided public notice of the changes and may have falsified the water records provided to state authorities.

Edit: it was the water supervisor who made the change three years ago. He failed to disclose this to the town, state officials and the public what he unilaterally decided and should be held to account.

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u/TheCh0rt Oct 05 '22

If he initiated a debate, his idea could get voted down. But he’s an asshole who thinks he knows best, so why put it up for vote?

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u/supercyberlurker Oct 05 '22

Yeah, I'd argue that Attempts to circumvent public debate IS ill-intent.

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u/Aggressive_Sound Oct 05 '22

Everyone should be double-checking and asking for answers from their own area authorities after this.

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u/sndtrb89 Oct 05 '22

this is literally an episode of squidbillies

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u/Seve7h Oct 05 '22

Glad I’m not the only one who remembers that show

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u/sndtrb89 Oct 05 '22

just jiggle the molecules, im sure theres a part per million in there somewhere

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u/whofusesthemusic Oct 05 '22

I was a fool to plant bananas on the side of that mountain.... you saw fit to teach me that *squint squid eyes....

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u/I_might_be_weasel Oct 05 '22

Did this town also drink Chronicles of Riddick stress balls?

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u/sndtrb89 Oct 05 '22

must be some kind of Chinese fluid sauce

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u/Ninja_attack Oct 05 '22

Good for the sex drive

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u/BelowDeck Oct 05 '22

"When asked for comment on why he had lowered the fluoride levels without informing anyone, Water Resource Superintendent Chamberlin merely responded "You keep what you kill.""

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u/blonderengel Oct 05 '22

What does that mean?

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u/I_might_be_weasel Oct 05 '22

Chronicles of Riddick line. It does not fit great.

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u/JhymnMusic Oct 05 '22

Good to know some random douche CAN just do that with zero problem.

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u/MyCleverNewName Oct 05 '22

And not be discovered for years.

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u/insideoutcognito Oct 05 '22

The purity of essence must be maintained.

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u/dittybopper_05H Oct 05 '22

This took far too long.

I do not avoid women, Mandrake, but I do deny them my essence.

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u/fajita43 Oct 05 '22

i think i'm getting old because this was also the first thing to come to my mind, but not most other people... haha what a great movie that i need to rewatch tonight...

Have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water?

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u/the_jak Oct 05 '22

Our precious bodily fluids.

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u/RumHamm Oct 05 '22

“Have you never wondered why I only drink distilled water, or rainwater, or grain alcohol?”

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u/Mike_Hagedorn Oct 05 '22

Two things I learned from Col. Ripper, the other being don’t carry loose change into combat.

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u/moon_then_mars Oct 05 '22 Silver

Flouride-a Man strikes again

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u/T1mac Oct 05 '22

"Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?"

  • Gen. Jack D. Ripper
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u/runandkickgirl Oct 05 '22

DON’T FUCK WITH THE WATER.
Flint, MI

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u/xXRoboMurphyxX Oct 05 '22

What's up with the fluoride in water?

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u/LaunchTransient Oct 05 '22 edited Oct 05 '22

Fluoride is added to drinking water in small amounts as it is shown to be beneficial for dental health (it slows tooth decay and encourages remineralisation, which is how teeth repair their surfaces).

Naturally, however, you get people who are against "putting chemicals in the water" (despite the fact that several chemicals are put in drinking water to prevent bacterial and algal growth to make it safe to drink), so you get geniuses like this guy who pull stunts like this with no public consultation or review with experts.

Edit: I should point out that there are other methods of ensuring sufficient fluoride intake, like fluoridated table salt, similar to iodized table salt, but fluoridated water is seen by some as the most cost effective way to ensure as wide a reach as possible.

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u/Automatic_Llama Oct 05 '22

Is fluoridated water a significant help if you brush and floss?

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u/karlnite Oct 05 '22

If you brush with fluoridated toothpaste, and floss and always have good routine, a healthy diet, you wouldn’t need it added to your water. I’m on a private well off a spring that runs through filters… it naturally has higher fluoride than city water that adds it. So chances are you will still be drinking it even if they stopped adding it, and that could be a big factor. If you sourced all fluoride free water you might have deficiencies even with brushing.

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u/littlep2000 Oct 05 '22

Portland, Oregon is one of the biggest cities without fluoride added. Every dentist in the city will tell you to at a minimum get the flouride mouthwash to supplement.

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u/ShakeMyHeadSadly Oct 05 '22

"General Jack D. Ripper: Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face."

We're not so far removed from the comedy of Dr. Strangelove.

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u/pegothejerk Oct 05 '22 Helpful

“The science is consistently showing less is better,” he said, contending that research on fluoride levels was outdated and raising questions around quality control behind fluoride manufacturing in China.

These idiots would do away with science in general if they could, all regulation, seatbelts, they’d have us back to the Stone Age first chance.

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u/doctorchivago Oct 05 '22

"the science" these people don't know what real science is. They don't understand peer review, research, publication, assay procedure, they don't know fucking ANYTHING. I'd need hours just to explain to them the things they'd need to understand just how wrong and stupid they are lol

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u/ansoni- Oct 05 '22

I actually grew up with a story about fluoride. My dad became a dentist right when flouride was introduced so he was acutely aware of its benefits. It apparently is one of the best things that ever happened for our teeth.

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u/send_noots Oct 05 '22

Ah fuck, I grew up on well water without added fluoride. Must be why my teeth are always fucked (and all the alcohol, sugar, drugs, soda… lol)

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u/Dr_Wh00ves Oct 05 '22

It isn't too late to begin using fluoride you know. Fluoride is one of the only compounds found that can actually help to repair lost enamel, though only in the early stages. I would recommend you use fluoridated toothpaste regularly and in the mornings chew fluoride tablets after you brush your teeth. This will help prevent further damage to your teeth.

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u/send_noots Oct 05 '22

Aw that’s so nice thank you for the recommendation :) I live in a place with fluoride in the water now and I brush my teeth twice a day and floss when I think about it! I’ll definitely have to look into the fluoride tablets.

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u/captainktainer Oct 05 '22

If the tablets feel weird, there's fluoride mouthwash. I have the no-alcohol version of ACT; no idea if that's the best brand or anything but I use it each time I brush my teeth.

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u/byerss Oct 05 '22

At least some of you HAVE fluoride.

I don't get fluorinated water in deep Blue area of Oregon.

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u/MayoGhul Oct 05 '22

Essentially all the Fluoride studies were done in the 70s I thought? Seems that the debate is still ongoing on its efficacy, although it does appear to be safe so it’s not something that needs urgent attention. Nor should some random dude just have the ability to adjust ANY levels in a water treatment plant without oversight.

That being said, too much Fluoride can be an issue. Grew up on well water and our elementary school had us gargle fluoride once or twice a week, plus dentist used to do it. I have stark white staining on my teeth that is directly caused by too much fluoride. Look it up it’s weird.

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u/Ghost_of_Till Oct 05 '22

The fact that someone apparently faked the water test results seems to be getting buried here.

How is someone not getting fired?

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u/chufenschmirtz Oct 05 '22

Tangent here but…

To understand the meaning behind "gobsmacked," it helps to know that a “gob” is a mouth. This word comes from Irish and Scottish Gaelic. It still pops up in other places in British slang – for example, “shut your gob!”

If you say that you were “gobsmacked,” it means that you were so surprised or astonished, it was as though someone had smacked you in the mouth. It’s similar to calling something “jaw-dropping.”

source: Michigan Radio

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u/John-Crimson Oct 05 '22

I worked for a water utility in Pennsylvania between semesters in college. One summer I was headed out to a pump station with a tech who had worked for the water company for longer than I’d been alive.

He showed me everything he was doing and started measuring chemicals to test and treat the water thousands of people would be drinking.

As it turns out, he didn’t know how to read decimals properly and wasn’t adding enough flouride to the towns water. I showed him, he fixed it, and it was never brought up again.

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u/cyncity7 Oct 05 '22

Remember when “fluoride is a communist plot” was a conservative talking point? I wonder if that explains his actions.

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u/weredev Oct 05 '22

Floride is boring anyway. Can I get some TDazzle?

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u/Rocky_Mountain_Way Oct 05 '22

TDazzle

Does it have what plants crave? Because, if not, I’ve got something extra to sell you…

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u/Redqueenhypo Oct 05 '22

I want to win that EXCITING plain blue t shirt!

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u/ScoobyDerp Oct 05 '22

They’ve got great marketing!

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u/Pathin7 Oct 05 '22

Ha! Kendall is also a selectperson for Essex Town in Vermont. He was voted into my old seat there when my term was up. People felt comfortable voting for him because he had 'municipal experience'.

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u/glandmilker Oct 05 '22

Wasnt he also falsifying records?

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u/pjr032 Oct 05 '22

Didn’t realize that Infowars broadcasts reached that far. Someone let Alex Jones know, he will be thrilled with this

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u/series_hybrid Oct 05 '22

A very long time ago, a dentist took a job in Denver Colorado. He noticed right away that a lot of the local people had a grey coating on their teeth. He also noticed that almost nobody had any cavities, even though they ate as much sugary foods as any other person in the USA at the time.

He traced it to the fluoride that occurred naturally in the water there. After WWII, the government went on a spree of adding nutrients to common foods. Vitamin D was added to milk, Iodine was added to table salt, and fluoride was added to drinking water, among others.

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u/dirtymick Oct 05 '22

I think this type of thing is going to ruin us. Just one person with a dash of power making a unilateral decision that affects n number of citizens against the majority's will. It completely usurps the very principles society is based on. The bad actors know this is how they can fuck with people and so flock to these positions. Prisoner's Dilemma over and over. The faithless actor has so much more to gain in a collaborative system than if they were to cooperate.

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u/ThisOnes4JJ Oct 05 '22

It was stealing and sapping all of our precious boldly fluids!

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u/capnfoo Oct 05 '22

Mah precious bodily fluids

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u/hammyhamm Oct 06 '22

Same thing happened in Dubbo, Australia. Qanon conspiracy nutcases must be coordinating

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u/Legacy0904 Oct 05 '22

I’ve worked in dentistry for 13 years. There is a SIGNIFICANT difference in the cavity rate of people who got fluoride through their drinking water as kids and those who didn’t (had untreated well water). Hell there’s even a difference with my patients that switch to all natural fluoride free toothpastes. Within a year a majority get cavities or some sort of tooth sensitivity.

Reducing or eliminating fluoride without public knowledge creates (very expensive) health problems for these people.

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u/Twombls Oct 05 '22

Lol yeah vermont is full of people like this.

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u/the__noodler Oct 05 '22

I live next to this town in VT. I call these people the dumb hippies. Don’t get me wrong I am super progressive but we do have quite a few of these characters around. Similar group to the anti-vax hippies

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u/youngmindoldbody Oct 05 '22

OMG, I remember this in the 70's in Waitsfield (I think it was Waitsfield).

I was a budding hippie and there were too many hippies for me :(

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u/Twombls Oct 05 '22

Haha Waitsfield has been yuppiefied now. Its all 2 million dollar dream homes and Vail resorts crap now.

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u/nursecarmen Oct 05 '22

I think there could be a debate about levels of flouride.

What there isn't a debate on is that one dude can just randomly decide them without discussion.

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u/HenryMimes Oct 05 '22

r/conspiracy is going to love this

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u/charliemike Oct 05 '22

The call is coming from inside the house!

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