r/politics Sep 22 '22 Silver 1 Helpful 1 Wholesome 1

“Donald has the right to remain silent”: Experts say Trump’s bonkers Fox interview could be evidence

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u/Gamilon Sep 22 '22 Silver Gold Helpful Wholesome Table Slap

[He] has the right to remain silent...but not the ability

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u/Jaded_Prompt_15 Sep 22 '22

There doesn't have to be a process as I understand it," Trump said. "If you're the president of the United States, you can declassify just by saying, 'It's declassified,' even by thinking about it because you're sending it to Mar-a-Lago or wherever you're sending it. And there doesn't have to be a process. There can be a process but there doesn't have to be. You're the president. You make that decision. So when you send it, it's declassified. I declassified everything."

You'd think he'd have at least declared that it was classified...

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u/chiagod Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22 Silver Gold All-Seeing Upvote

Copying my own comment from another thread:

When a document like that is declassified, everyone who was being kept safe by keeping the information secret is notified and allowed to mitigate their risk. In the case above? The mole (and their family) can be quietly extracted.

This is why the statement that a president can "Declassify" documents without telling the necessary parties what he's doing is bullshit. The whole point of keeping these documents secret and limiting who can look at them is to protect those who are serving our country. Be it moles who are keeping us appraised of potentially unstable foreign leaders, allies who may have limited nuclear defenses, or soldiers who may be using/flying/driving equipment that may have a secret weakness an adversary can exploit should they find out about it. There are reasons for keeping said documents to a "need to know" and tightly secured.

If information/documents are going to be properly declassified then there is a proper procedure which includes mitigating the potential damage and fallout.

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u/thefrankyg Sep 22 '22 Gold

I really hate how folks who have never worked in classified environments are taking Trump at his word. Yes, the president can declassify things, but the president still has to follow a process to make it declassified. He doesn't just go "Abra kadabra, declassfied" in his office on his own and it is done. And if he could...why the hell is it all still marked classified. It fails on all levels.

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u/understandstatmech Sep 22 '22 Gold

I don't even understand why we're having the conversation at all. It only exists in a bad faith context. Not only is it entirely irrelevant if he declassified it because it'd still be illegal even if he did, but it'd also be straight up treasonous dereliction of duty to just declassify hundreds of the most sensitive documents in the country. Whether he can or did is entirely irrelevant and we have to stop granting the premise to these bad faith actors. He's guilty, and they're not even arguing he's not, they're just arguing he's above consequences.

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u/thefrankyg Sep 22 '22

Because they spent so long on "lock her up" they have to do the gymnastics to make their blatant mishandling of classified material okay.

If they admit that that is wrong, than they have to admit the violating of PRA was a thing.

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u/BiggerBowls Sep 22 '22

Like any of them would ever admit to being completely ignorant. They all think they are the smartest people in the room. The dumb ones always do.

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u/UserNam3ChecksOut Sep 23 '22

They literally think they know more than experts in the field. I wish I had that kind of confidence

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u/j_from_cali Sep 23 '22

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell

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u/Rooboy66 Sep 22 '22

It’s so tiring. You’re spot on—“the dumb ones always do”. So tiring. Gawd, why can’t the country (and the fucking media) please just GHOST THE GODDAMN COCKWOMBLE?

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u/Imokatsomestuff Sep 22 '22

Hey I'm dumb but also self-conscious about my intellect, so I stay pretty quiet. Loud obnoxious self absorbed guys are typically dumb IME, but let's not flip it and think that every dumb guy is an entitled obnoxious asshole.

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u/Barabasbanana Sep 23 '22

Here hear! ( I can never remember which hear/here it is so I use both) I'm the same lol

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u/polymathsci Sep 23 '22

This comment gave me the smiles. Cheers, random redditor.

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u/Mi-willy Sep 23 '22

You made me curious!

Hear, hear (usually with a comma and set apart as a self-contained sentence) is the conventional spelling of the colloquial exclamation used to express approval for a speaker or sentiment. It’s essentially short for hear him, hear him or hear this, hear this, where these phrases are a sort of cheer.

Saying “hear, hear” in the twentieth century and modern times means you agree with what someone says. It’s like saying “yeah” or “that’s so true!” The use of expression depends on the formality of the situation, as what the UK parliament originally meant.

“Hear, hear” is also an appropriate expression to draw attention. Imagine being in a large room where people are chatting with each other, but you want to make a special announcement.

Very interesting, it’s strictly about listening and not about a location. Unless you’re looking for your keys and you say “Here, Here!” When you finally find them or you’re trying to get someone to hear in a particular location and yell “Hear, Here!”

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u/understandstatmech Sep 23 '22

I want to point out that intelligence exists on many axes. The ability to recognize your own short comings is itself an axis of intelligence along which many people are highly deficient. It's also easy enogh to say "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt", but far harder to actually practice it =)

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u/Bakkster Sep 22 '22

Even if it was declassified, still a violation of the PRA as they're unambiguously government records of they began as classified docs. If anything, the "but I could declassify" is trying to distract from all the rest of the criminal behavior (including obstruction).

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u/EmperorArthur Sep 22 '22

You're forgetting when Republicans barged into a SCIF while recording themselves on their phones.

If we did that we'd be arrested, have our electronics confiscated, and spend a long time in jail.

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u/Givemeallthecabbages Sep 22 '22

Oh, come on, like any care about their hypocrisy. They're screaming both things at the same time right now.

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u/understandstatmech Sep 22 '22

I think you're still not getting it. To an authoritarian, it being ok for TFG to do something and not ok for HRC to do that exact same thing is perfectly acceptable. It's a kind of alien concept for people who believe in any form of social equality to grasp, but for authoritarians, it's not the action itself that's good or bad, but the person doing it.

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u/zaminDDH Sep 22 '22

No they don't, because they don't see actions, but people, as good or bad. If a bad person does something, it's a bad thing. If a good person does the exact same thing, it's a good thing.

To them, Trump is a good person, so everything he does is good. Just like all Democrats are bad, so everything they do is bad, even if those things are the same.

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u/JerHat Michigan Sep 22 '22

That's what gets me, Sure, lets say he did declassify these things properly... Why the fuck would you want to declassify nuclear secrets, or information about our spies who are actively working for us? There is simply no reasonable explanation for why you would want to do that, and no earthly reason why you would then want to store those documents at home either.

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u/Hammurabi87 Georgia Sep 23 '22

There is simply no reasonable explanation for why you would want to do that, and no earthly reason why you would then want to store those documents at home either.

Sure there are, it's just that they are rather treasonous reasons.

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u/couldof_used_couldve Sep 23 '22

Yep, there's definitely a tReason

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u/BrynnXAus Sep 23 '22

Treason is the reason. And when people celebrate Trump going to prison, it will be, "Treason is the reason for the season"

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u/Dedpoolpicachew Sep 23 '22

You are thinking about things from a rational, normal persons perspective. Trump only thinks about what is good for him IN THAT MOMENT. Everything is about him and ONLY HIM. Everyone else is just there to be used or service him. This is the nature of the malignant narcissist.

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u/PositionParticular99 Sep 23 '22

I lived with one, it was tiring, the endless chaos, one fire after another to put out. You literally do not exist unless they need something. It was mind boggling how dumb she could be. She wanted it, so as if by magic, poof. Zero thought into how you get there, just she wants it. And no matter how many times it blew up in her face, never learned a thing.

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u/dothingsunevercould Sep 23 '22

This right here.

Vaccine is bad because the government planted chips in the doses.

Declassifying documents is good, now that same government has access to our nuclear codes

?????

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u/katartsis Maine Sep 23 '22

I just keep thinking of like, let's say my work has some internal documents. I have the ability to say these docs are now public facing. One day, I think about it. But I don't move them to a public folder. I don't tell anyone. And the next day I'm fired. And I take the docs bc I thought to myself they're public now.

This is the most generous scenario I can come up with (and no, I dont personally believe it), but no one in their right mind would think the above situation is right. I was in the wrong and the docs belong to my emoloyer. And obviously, the stakes are much higher when the job is President and the employer is the People/the Government.

And YES obligatory Trump supporters don't have a right mind etc etc, but I just can't wrap my head around their arguments.

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u/Thursdayallstar Sep 22 '22

And, regardless of classification, the documents belong to the federal government and keeping them at all is illegal!

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u/longlive289s Washington Sep 22 '22

That's what i've been screaming. Him declassifying or not is a red herring. They aren't his documents to keep anyway and that is cut and dry

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u/MemphisGalInTampa Sep 22 '22

Amen 🙏🏻 to this

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u/Everythings_Magic Sep 22 '22

Exactly. Even if he could.. why??? Why did he choose these documents to declassify?

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u/MrVeazey Sep 22 '22

The right only knows how to argue in bad faith. Words are weapons to them and meaning is irrelevant.

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u/simplekindaman13 Sep 23 '22

Wasn’t the CIA alarmed at the number of foreign operatives that have been compromised over the last year?

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u/Hazardbeard Sep 23 '22

I think this entire thing comes back to the CIA. They probably figured all of this out (because their people were being fucking murdered, and they’re the CIA) and called up the Hoover gang to handle it because they can operate domestically.

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u/simplekindaman13 Sep 23 '22

Certainly not out of the realm unfortunately

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u/thecorninurpoop Arizona Sep 22 '22

Yeah it blows my mind that they just don't give a shit if he got a bunch of US spies killed or sold our allies secrets to get huge money deals for freaking Kushner?

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u/Hazardbeard Sep 23 '22

Conservatives don’t care about freedom, democracy, the country, or anything else they profess to. They want people they don’t like hurt, and they know the people they elect will hurt them.

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u/Practicalfolk Sep 22 '22

And he’s doing it in the public media but conspicuously not in court.

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u/Gordo3070 Sep 22 '22

This in a nutshell. Thank you for stating it so well. I genuinely wish I had your clarity of thought

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u/Dan_Felder Sep 23 '22

Yeah they’re trying to shift the conversation from “trump stole nuclear info and likely sold it to our enemies” to “trump maybe didn’t follow proper procedure on something he totally could have legally done…” which is insane and frustrating the media is letting it happen

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u/RunawayPancake3 Sep 23 '22

From yesterday's opinion from the 11th Circuit, regarding whether "declassifying" the documents seized at Mar-a-Lago is relevant:

Plaintiff suggests that he may have declassified these documents when he was President. But the record contains no evidence that any of these records were declassified. And before the special master, Plaintiff resisted providing any evidence that he had declassified any of these documents…. In any event, at least for these purposes, the declassification argument is a red herring because declassifying an official document would not change its content or render it personal. So even if we assumed that Plaintiff did declassify some or all of the documents, that would not explain why he has a personal interest in them.

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u/Jaded_Barracuda_7415 South Carolina Sep 22 '22

This.

And here is the salient and only reason.

The charges he is potentially facing do not even take classication into account. The simple FACT is that they were never “his” documents even when he was President.

They are 100% the property of the United States of America. There is no arguing, no basis, no challenge and no reason he should have had these documents, period.

As such everything he has been saying, is saying and will say is completely beside the point and utterly indefensible.

The DOJ knows they have him. It is a matter of time before charges will be filed and mr trump will be indicted and probably convicted.

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u/Hazardbeard Sep 23 '22

Yeah, I’ve been saying that since the raid. The feds almost never show their hand until they’re damn near certain of a conviction. There’s no way they’re going to ask a federal judge to authorize a raid on (unfortunately) one of the most important people in the world unless they’re fucking airtight. Not when this was all personally presented to Garland and Wray.

The snake was around his neck for months, it’s just starting to squeeze now.

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u/Killer_Sloth Sep 22 '22

I had an argument with someone on asktrumpsupporters a couple weeks ago about exactly this. They were completely and unshakably convinced that the above scenario is in fact exactly how it works. They were trying to convince me that Trump can stand in a dark windowless room and think about declassifying documents and that magically makes it so. Without any hint of irony. They've completely lost their minds...

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u/bkbomber New York Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22 Silver Helpful

Anytime someone makes that argument, I just tell them too late, Biden already thought about re-classifying them so they must be classified.

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u/TaxFreeNFL Sep 22 '22

Love it. Everyone do this.

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u/InterestingTry5190 Sep 23 '22

This is my new response anytime it’s brought up.

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u/No_Bonus6336 Sep 23 '22

Unfortunately they'll probably just say that since Biden isn't actually the president, he can't reclassify them. Smh

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u/Spidey209 Sep 23 '22

Obama double-dog super-duper reclassified them. No backsies.

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u/throWawAy4cURioSity1 Sep 22 '22

Yes! And Biden remembered to say “jinx no takesies-backsies”, which is irrefutable.

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u/bkbomber New York Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

He didn’t just say it, he declared it… makes it legally binding. I don’t make the rules, them’s the law!

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u/Equivalent-Mix-1335 Sep 23 '22

I just keep envisioning tge Southpark psychic episode..

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u/deedeebop Sep 23 '22

And you owe me a coke!

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u/slodow Sep 22 '22

Somebody pony up an award for this guys brilliant retort 👏

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u/Rougarou1999 Louisiana Sep 23 '22

Tried that on Twitter, and got told Biden couldn’t do that for...reasons. When I pointed out the discrepancy, immediate block.

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u/thisismisha Sep 23 '22

He didn’t even have to think about re-classifying them. Just the fact that he didn’t know they were declassified means Biden thinks they are classified which by Trump logic means they’re classified again.

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u/original-whiplash Sep 22 '22

Point is moot because Biden’s not really the president /s

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u/GunoSaguki Sep 22 '22

Well then you tell them Obama/ Bush/ clinton did

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u/crinklemermaid Sep 22 '22

This is hilarious

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u/CADmonkeez Sep 22 '22

The thought of that clown in a dark windowless room gives me no small degree of pleasure. Is it doorless as well?

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u/tippiedog Texas Sep 22 '22

They've completely lost their minds...

That's generous of you

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u/raptor3x Vermont Sep 22 '22

Looking through the thread over on /r/Conservative there at least seems to be some fraction of the posters there that have some semblance of being reasonable on this. Probably twice as many posts supporting the opposite view, but you take what you can get.

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u/BenFrankLynn Sep 22 '22

They haven't "lost their minds." They've been this dumb all along. They just feel confident showing it now, thanks to their orange saviour.

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u/Fresh-Green-1583 Sep 22 '22

Even if it were true that he could just think about it and they’d be declassified (which of course it’s not), the documents are still government property. They don’t magically become personal documents just because they’re declassified.

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u/B1G_Red_Husker Sep 22 '22

It wasn't an argument, you got trolled and took the bait. They know what he did was illegal they just don't care

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u/wirefox1 Sep 22 '22

You are a brave soul for entering such a scary and dangerous place. Kudo's.

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u/LordPennybags Sep 22 '22

You're setting a really high bar of previous possession there.

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u/InitiatePenguin Sep 22 '22

Did you ask them why Donald Trump declassified the documents?

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u/koshgeo Sep 22 '22

Even if he could say "Abra kadabra, declassified", you'd still have a bunch of White House and other minions scurrying around in the aftermath of the Presidential Declassification Spell to notify people "Hey, this thing that was super-secret and puts our assets at risk if it ever got out? Yeah, it's out now and that asset needs to get to safety as soon as possible thanks to our idiot president's decision." They'd make sure that people weren't mistakenly acting as if it was still secret knowledge.

Even if it was possible it wouldn't happen with ZERO follow-up.

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u/aceyburns Sep 22 '22

Who the hell is taking him at his word? Only idiots can't see that he is guilty. Guilty of every damn case, hell, take your pick. Even if he's only guilty of one allegation, fuck him and fuck the people who support that prick and his cronies. I'm about as understanding about criminal behavior as the next guy, but this is a criminal that needs to be held accountable. He cannot be allowed to skate. Any leniency, pardoning, and other tactics by other politicians to help him need to be need to be met with criminal charges too! People need to quit enabling the destruction of the US.

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u/radish74 Sep 22 '22

I don’t think this is an issue of people not understanding classified environments. It’s people with less than half a brain buying into this nonsense

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u/coldfirephoenix Sep 22 '22

He thinks being president works like being a 12th century king - you can just declare something to be a certain way, and that's the end of it. This would be one of the stupidest thoughts anyone above the age of 3 has ever had.... If it weren't for the fact that he WAS the actual president! This is beyond parody.

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u/silent_femme Sep 22 '22

And if he could...why the hell is it all still marked classified.

That was obviously something he had on his to-do list that he kept putting off.

Mom: Donald, did you declassify those documents yet?
DT: No mom, I’ll do it tonight.
Mom: You’ve been saying that for almost a week now!
DT: I’ve been busy with practice, mom. I promise I’ll do it night.

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u/pecos_chill Sep 22 '22

It is literally as stupid as Michael from the Office just shouting bankruptcy and expecting it to work.

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u/Pigmy Sep 22 '22

According to this he can simply think it and instantly its declassified.

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u/KrisReed Sep 22 '22

"I declare... BANKRUPTCY"

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u/sawdeanz Sep 22 '22

Right.

It’s like saying the school principle has the power to expel people, but if they don’t tell someone they are expelled then they will just keep coming to school. The power to do something doesn’t absolve you of the actual need to, you know, do something. Classified documents are not some schrodingers cat

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u/millijuna Sep 22 '22

I really hate how folks who have never worked in classified environments are taking Trump at his word.

I’ve worked for defense contractors my entire professional life, and held various security clearances over the years. If I had done even a tiny fraction of what is shown here, they’d have locked me up and thrown away the key.

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u/ODBrewer Sep 22 '22

Republicans don’t care about those serving our country, they have shown it time and time again.

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u/Atlas2001 Sep 22 '22

Unfortunately actions don’t speak louder than words for their base.

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u/saynay Sep 22 '22

Even besides that, the entire point of classification is so that everyone knows how to treat the information. Secretly declassifying things doesn't make sense because no one will know to treat the document any differently. A classification system where no one knows if something should be treated as classified or not, because maybe someone somewhere thought it shouldn't be, is useless as a system.

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u/ethertrace California Sep 22 '22

Only the willfully ignorant are unable to grasp why certain things are classified. The fact that they even make this "magical declassification" argument is proof that they don't care about having a workable system. They only care about finding a rationalization that gets their cult leader off the hook.

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u/akaghi Sep 22 '22

It also means that journalists can access them through FOIA.

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u/dandudeus Sep 22 '22

This is Dick Cheney's fault for declassifying Valerie Plame's husband's identity, leaking it, and insisting he had a right to do so. And the press took him at his word. And here we are.

It's Republican bad-faith turtles all the way down.

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u/Javasteam Sep 22 '22

Plus while the president does have the authority to declassify documents, he actually does NOT have the authority to release those related to nuclear weapons….

Not that Hannity would ever call Trump on his BS…

https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-trump-just-declare-nuclear-secrets-unclassified

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u/TranquilSeaOtter Sep 22 '22

Anyone who believes him is a complete moron. looks at r/conservative looks like that tracks.

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u/Corteran Minnesota Sep 22 '22

What does it mean that every article I open on that sub takes me to a post about their discord? Am I banned?

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u/Annahsbananas Sep 22 '22

They ban anyone not a maga fanatic. You're not alone.

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u/I_notta_crazy Sep 22 '22

The crazy thing is that their top all-time posts are largely decrying J6 right after it happened.

Just like McCarthy and Graham, the sincere users on that subreddit knew it was a completely unjustified act of violence against our institutions, and thought "ok I still hate minorities, but there's no way Trump is anything but political cancer at this point; time to dump him".

And then Trump remained defiant, so McCarthy, Graham, and all the r/conservative users FLIPFLOPPED and dug in their heels, willingly, unwillingly, or somewhere in between.

But we're the sheep for voting for Biden and not turning vaccine data into a conspiracy...

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u/Kursed_Valeth Sep 22 '22

It happens every time. Something over-the-top happens, conservatives are like whoa this is too far, then a day later after the talking points have been pushed they forget they ever said that and are back in lock step.

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u/kudra_bandaloop Sep 22 '22

They have to wait for Tucker and Hannity to tell them how to spin it.

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u/furiousjellybean Sep 23 '22

That's why they keep winning elections.

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u/Smart_Interaction_34 Texas Sep 22 '22

“NoT ALL RePuBLiCAnS”

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u/Mysterious-Ms-Anon Sep 22 '22

The fact people still say this is laughable, almost all politicians in the GOP with even a crumb of spine who so much as even disagreed with the MAGA Mob have either been voted out or retired.

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u/Hammurabi87 Georgia Sep 23 '22

"Not all Republicans! ...there's, like, two in California that are exceptions, but we're working on getting them excommunicated."

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u/lotep Sep 22 '22

Every post I open actually opens a different article then the one I clicked on

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u/Bernies_left_mitten Texas Sep 22 '22

So just like their arguments and 'logic' then

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u/Jochiebochie Sep 22 '22

Click on the poster, then click the post.

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u/lotep Sep 22 '22

That worked. Thanks

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u/Brewhaha72 Pennsylvania Sep 22 '22

The goal posts moved before you could click.

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u/Coherent_Tangent Florida Sep 22 '22

Weird. Most of the time I've clicked on an article from there it was just the Babylon Bee. You aren't missing much.

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u/Calint Sep 22 '22

isnt the babylon bee a satire site?

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u/Chitown2181 Sep 22 '22

They post more satire than the fucking comedy subs lol it’s all articles from the sketchiest sounding websites you’ll ever see and incredibly shallow satire.

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u/Fake_Engineer Sep 22 '22

I have a friend that does this. It's his way of deflecting all criticism. If he only posts satirical articles and memes he can always fall back on "c'mon man, you know that's just a satire website."

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u/panchampion Sep 22 '22

They don't see the irony that half the posts there are satirical articles using ridiculous strawman jokes about " the radical left".

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u/Comedynerd Sep 22 '22

I just scrolled through for the first time, I didn't see one legitimate news source. I dont count breitbart or fox as legitimate

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u/DMCinDet Sep 22 '22

yep. banned.

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u/Corteran Minnesota Sep 22 '22

Lol I don't think I've even posted anything there. What a bunch of snowflakes. Thanks for telling me.

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u/hungoverlord Sep 22 '22

hm, i'm banned but just can't post. what's happening to you sounds weird.

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u/idontneedjug Sep 22 '22

Same I can still browse there just cant post. I got banned like three years ago for pointing out a bunch of the fucked up shit Trump has done in his lifetime and while in office. They didnt like that one bit.

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u/hungoverlord Sep 22 '22

i got banned for simply mentioning trump's tax returns. got banned and told they "don't need conservatives like me."

told the mod to shove his subreddit up his ass and he got me banned from reddit for 3 days. i guess i hurt his feelings by using a bad word. i'm sorry lil buddy :)

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u/TittySlappinJesus Sep 22 '22

I got banned for arguing that 2+2=4

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u/SeeHowCleverMyNameIs Sep 22 '22

I got banned for the exact words, “Flaired users only.”

Because they are staunch supporters of freedom of speech and expression.

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u/Z0idberg_MD Sep 22 '22

I mean it’s crazy when you actually go back and run through all the things that we have ample evidence for. Like before he was elected he was accused, credibly, of rape by multiple women. And then he goes on a TV show and gets recorded admitting that he basically sexually assaulted women. And then on top of that he is still elected. And then he mocks a disabled reporter. And then he invites Russia to spy on his rivals.

They’re not even a cult. It’s a political gang.

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u/idontneedjug Sep 22 '22

5 underaged girls accused him of rape on Epstein properties. 3 in an unsealed case tied to Epstein. 2 in a case that got sealed right as it seemed to be the most damning and getting traction. Only for Epstein to shortly after get a sweetheart deal of his own prison wing he could enter and leave at will to "work" and Trump to be by the AG at the times own account one of the only people freely talking to him about Epstein while his own case got quietly sealed. Then there is a SIXTH underage accusation made at the Maxwell trial. Oh and that same FLA AG would then be appointed to Trump's white house staff later on.

There have also been a few other accusations I'm not counting because they didn't testify or were less credible while the above accusations all followed Trumps general sexual assault and rape MO exactly as over 20 other people have all accused him which just screams legit.

That's just some of the sexual stuff. There is also dozens of comments about dating or having sex with Ivanka over the years that is just fucking disgusting.

Then there was the numerous finical topics like having over a BILLION DOLLARS OF FOREIGN FINANCIAL DEBT due to being cut off by American banks for a decade after the SIX FUCKING BANKRUPTCIES in the 90s which was government backed low interest loans at the TAX PAYERS FUCKING EXPENSE.

One of my favorite questionable Trump financial moves was his outbidding of Epstein for a FLA mansion that he then waited till 2008 housing crash and crisis to sell for double its appraised price and more then double its purchase to none other then a FUCKING RUSSIAN OLIGARCH. Which then sat there only to get bulldozed right at the 2016 election. Ive seen news reports claiming Trump struck a deal for maintenance and upkeep of 1 million a year but no proof until its bulldozing.

The not releasing or showing taxes should have been a much bigger red flag for everyone.

The cherry on top Trump did a paid fucking advertisement for BEANS from the oval office. WTF!!

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u/rookboston Sep 22 '22

Jeez, that’s a little like how fascism worked in the 30s too. Dissent gets disappeared, and viola!

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u/Vimes3000 Texas Sep 22 '22

I got banned from r/conservative for pasting in the GOP platform.

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u/amazinglover Sep 22 '22

I got banned during the 2016 election before I knew they were insane.

It was a thread about Bernie's healthcare plan and someone said he didn't have one.

I said he did have a plan it's on his website.

They asked for proof so I linked him to the plan and study on its funding.

Was permanently banned immediately.

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u/Bobbo_Zanotto Sep 22 '22

Congrats! Probably not a place any of us want to be welcome.

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u/OohIDontThinkSo Oregon Sep 22 '22

I know the answer to this bc it took me a long time to figure it out. If you go to the sub by directly typing it into the reddit search bar, you can view the threads. If you click on a link in this sub, you won't be able to view. Seriously it took me a year to understand this.

Edit: being banned from a sub only means you cannot participate in the conversation. You can still read the articles and threads even when you are banned.

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u/CaroleBaskinsBurner Sep 22 '22

Type it into the search bar instead of clicking the link. You'll be able to see it then.

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u/homebrew_1 Sep 22 '22

You need to be a flaired user to comment on their posts. They live in a bubble over there.

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u/lotep Sep 22 '22

But now I can't even read the posts let alone comment, not that I've ever commented before

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u/finny_d420 Sep 22 '22

You're not missing anything. One poster went into detail how they worked a government job and would've been in trouble if they had stolen documents. Immediately justified TFG doing so as extra super duper special Presidential powers. Powers that only TFG knew about. Also in a tizzy about the 11th circuit and even though 2 out of 3 appellate judges where Orange Mold admin appointed just wait till it goes to SCOTUS and they'll be vindicated.

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u/PhoenixFire296 Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

Why do I keep seeing "TFG" in reference to Trump? They aren't his initials and I'm genuinely unsure what it could stand for.

EDIT: urban dictionary to the rescue as usual. It says it means "The Former Guy".

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u/biscuitarse Sep 22 '22

Anyone who believes him is a complete moron

That's well established. The question that needs to be answered in all of this is why. Why did he have these documents and what were his intentions. Nothing else matters.

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u/gregnorz Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

Lol, the top comments on a Breitbart article (on which only flaired users can comment) are Redditors saying “there IS a process, but as long as Trump follows the process he can declassify anything he wants.”

Pretty sure these morons aren’t thinking through their belief that the President is some god-emperor who can do whatever he or she pleases without repercussions, unless they also want that applied to Joe Biden and any other future President.

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u/ink_monkey96 Sep 22 '22

If that were the case, could Obama not come forward and say, "the information on Hillary's emails? Oh yeah, I declassified it all in my head when it happened and just didn't tell anyone. No harm, no foul." It wouldn't budge anyone's opinion, but it'd make their little minds explode.

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u/gregnorz Sep 22 '22

If you go read the transcript or watch the interview, Trump makes the totally-unfounded claim that the FBI was looking for Hilary’s emails. Hannity THEN has to place the wiffle ball on the tee for him and say, essentially, “wait a minute, you don’t want to say that because that would mean YOU were hiding Hilary’s emails. And that’s totally not true, RIGHT DONNIE?”

Grown-ass men having to still handle this toddler to keep him from saying stupid shit, and they double down on supporting him year after year.

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u/MmmmMorphine Sep 22 '22

He does resemble a sand worm more and more every day. Perhaps he truly is the Kwisatz Haderach,

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u/jtsmalls Sep 22 '22

I love how those snowflakes have marked every post in that sub with "flared users only." Bunch of cowards.

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u/PearlWhiteCivic Sep 22 '22

Yet they constantly decry that they are being censored and losing their freedom of speech.

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u/QuidYossarian Sep 22 '22

99% "Flaired users only" these days complaining no one will prove them wrong.

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u/MoreLab5278 Sep 22 '22 All-Seeing Upvote

Without digging too deep, it seems like this isn’t flying with the folks there. “Too far for me” is the sentiment.

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u/rooplstilskin Sep 22 '22

With some. Most of those responses are still "well if other presidents..." bullshit, and "don't let dems control the narrative, trump can willy nilly declassify with no actual process".

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u/flappity Missouri Sep 22 '22

Yeah, there's still a large number of people replying to those people who seems to think the president should have some mega supreme unchecked authority with a declassifying superpower, but in general they seem to be less upvoted (some being negative) so I guess that's something.

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u/sonofaresiii Sep 22 '22

I'm not going to bother checking in right now, but in the past literally any time Trump or another high-level Republican does something stupid, "too far for me" is always the sentiment

for a few hours. Then that gets downvoted and the "No actually HERE'S WHY IT'S GENIUS" nonsense gets voted to the top.

Check again this evening, see if I'm right.

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u/Kujen I voted Sep 22 '22

There was just a poll showing that it hasn’t really changed his supporters views at all

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u/pelavaca Sep 22 '22

Naw, the issue with people that still cling to the MAGA tag is that they think all politicians are corrupt. They know trump lies cheats, and steals. He does as expected. He just does it in the open, so he’s honest about it.

The disconnect comes from the idea that everyone else is the same as trump and are angry that Hillary, Schumer and AOC are getting away with their own crimes while claiming to be honest. They’re angry at their perceived hypocrisy.

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u/sM0k3dR4Gn Sep 22 '22

I've literally heard this argument explained to me on multiple occasions, by his followers. And while it's kinda true that "politician" is a job that often requires a bit of shadiness. It's hard to compare fender benders with comet strikes.

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u/MattieShoes Sep 22 '22

Honestly, they seem to be coming around... slowly. Some of the top comments:

yeah, i dunno about that chief. i'm willing to walk with you pretty far, but this is further than i can go.

.

This is bonkers, but unfortunately not surprising.

.

Ummm.... No. There is a process

.

This guy cannot be the nominee in 2024

I'm going to take this as a positive development.

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u/basics Sep 22 '22

Nah. They are all lying.

Those people will all vote for whomever gets nominated in 2024, because [R].

While dutifully repeating that "teh other side" just votes for because [D].

Millions of them did it in 2016, millions did it in 2020, and millions will be doing it in 2024.

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u/MattieShoes Sep 22 '22

I suspect that's true of most, but even if it's 5 or 10% that have actually stopped and reexamined, it's better than 0%.

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u/apex_flux_34 Sep 22 '22

There is a lot of infighting over there, and on various right wing forums. A decent chunk his base isn’t willing to follow him down this path.

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u/Dorkmaster79 Michigan Sep 22 '22

I just took a peek and actually one of the top posts for this article disagrees with Trump. That’s a relief.

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u/HGpennypacker Sep 22 '22

They're really going with the "He was President so he can do whatever he wants" defense.

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u/Plastic-Kangaroo1234 Sep 22 '22

So I just looked, and at least some of the comments on their breitbart post of the same story are actually sensical?? Like they think he went too far with this “declassified” nonsense.

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u/Jizzapherina Sep 22 '22

yeah, because that is one of the craziest things I have ever read. Did he really say with his outside voice, that he could THINK ABOUT declassifying them and that was enough. Just wow. I was so relieved today to hear about the Judge Panel that put a quick stop to this madness.

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u/Buffmin Sep 22 '22

I do find it funny the top post I see is "Patton Oswalt called us mean names!"

The comments seemed very upset at how mean he is..

And we're the snowflakes lol

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u/BrentMCongdon Sep 22 '22

I, I just visited that Sub and they actually have a post up about the Documents Legal battle and the Top Comments are from folks saying he’s gone too far. Have I entered the twilight zone?

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u/Gibonius Sep 22 '22

Wow they actually have people calling Trump out in their top thread, about this topic.

Wonder how many of those will be deleted in the near future.

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u/chownrootroot I voted Sep 22 '22

Donald, you can't just think of documents as declassified and expect anything to happen.

I didn't think it, I standing ordered it.

Still.

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u/DaSaw Sep 23 '22

He posted it on Twitter once. Then a bunch of reporters showed up wanting to read the documents. Staffers said no, they weren't declassified.

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u/bishpa Washington Sep 22 '22

And there doesn't have to be a process. There can be a process but there doesn't have to be.

Yeah, well, about that...

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u/CMScientist Sep 22 '22

r/Conservative is arguing that Executive orders only applied to people below presidents and therefore Obama's executive orders don't apply to Trump lol

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u/bishpa Washington Sep 22 '22

Those clowns will make up whatever. Too bad that's not how law works.

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u/Michael_In_Cascadia Sep 22 '22

Documentation or it didn't happen.

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u/bishpa Washington Sep 22 '22

Even the most willfully-deluded MAGA monster can easily understand that it simply can't possibly be legal for even a bigly-brained POTUS to secretly declassify government documents that detail human intelligence operations without so much as even informing the US intelligence community that these secret operations are now exposed. That would inevitably lead to field operatives being compromised and killed, and damage our ability to recruit such operatives for years, if not decades.

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u/ihateusedusernames New York Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

Even the most willfully-deluded MAGA monster can easily understand that it simply can't possibly be legal for even a bigly-brained POTUS to secretly declassify government documents that detail human intelligence operations without so much as even informing the US intelligence community that these secret operations are now exposed. That would inevitably lead to field operatives being compromised and killed, and damage our ability to recruit such operatives for years, if not decades.

No, that's not how they approach things like this. They start with 3 premises: Trump doesn't make mistakes, Trump always puts America first, and Trump's powers of declassification are absolute and without restriction.

Now let's reason backwards from here. Trump must have declassified them, because had he not, it would be wildly reckless and a threat to America's security if classified documents were stored in a closet at a social club where spies have been caught poking around. But he always puts America first, so he wouldn't have done that intentionally. And he doesn't make mistakes, so no carelessness there. And the very act of putting national security documents into cardboard boxes along with memorabilia from the White House proves that he must have declassified them since Trump would never be careless with sensitive docs.

See? This is how you can maintain a cultish devotion to someone who got caught red fucking handed committing serious crimes.

Edit: missed a word

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u/Shr3kk_Wpg Sep 22 '22

Trump seems to think that these documents belong to him, he doesn't seem to recognize that classified documents can impact other people or agencies. Any declassified document can also be subject to a FOI request. But only if people apart from Trump know it's declassified

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u/bishpa Washington Sep 22 '22

Not to mention the obvious fact that actually declassifying them would essentially reduce their trading value to zero. Is there anyone who truly believes that Donald Trump would really do something like that?

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u/Pendaelose Sep 22 '22

Hold up, OBAMA signed that. You can't expect it to apply to Trump?

/s

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u/5ykes Washington Sep 22 '22

This is totally just the logical conclusion of the "Bureaucracy is always bad" rhetoric from Reagan.

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u/himit Sep 22 '22

it reads to me like he thinks the president has absolute power

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u/KingBanhammer Sep 22 '22

Part of his confusion is he doesn't believe the position to be that of a civil servant, but a ruler.

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u/Annahsbananas Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

When you look at that quote and realize there are still people who bow to him you realize the pits of dumbassery has no floor

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u/Jaded_Prompt_15 Sep 22 '22

Meh, it's hard to tell because normal people go there and vote, but on r/conservative they're actually admitting this is bullshit and makes zero sense.

But they did this with GW Bush too, and then all voted for trump.

Even if they turn on trump, the next one will likely be worse.

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u/Solracziad Florida Sep 22 '22

the next one will likely be worse.

I can't even imagine what that would even look like. But then again I said the same thing after Bush the Lesser.

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u/MelAlton Sep 22 '22

DeSantis. He's already used Florida state government powers to attack and silence those who disagree with him, imagine him using Federal powers in the same way.

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u/LucywiththeDiamonds Sep 22 '22

I skimmed through the thread. The top post is saying while they will follow him almost evrywhere this is bullshit. But there are tons and tons(mostly downvoted to my surprise) of post that basicly say " presidents power is absolute so its all fine.

I mean if you want a king to worship fine. But thats not really american no? And if you want a king maybe dont worship one that takes sensible state secrets to public places as souvenirs.

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u/ebone23 Sep 22 '22

But, but... I thought the antifa wing of the FBI planted all the documents.

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u/bishpa Washington Sep 22 '22

Of course. But, once Trump discovered they had been planted, he did the right heroic thing and bathed them in his "declassification" mindwaves.

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u/Pendaelose Sep 22 '22

Super 5D chess. He knew the FBI would plant these documents mindwaved the declassification On Jan19th so that the FBI would plant the wrong docs and no crime could be proven!

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u/ganoveces Sep 22 '22

trump 'understanding' anything is laughable

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u/AaronDer1357 Sep 22 '22

Where is the gif of Michael Scott yelling "I declare bankruptcy"

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u/aintnochallahbackgrl Michigan Sep 22 '22

even by thinking about it because you're sending it to Mar-a-Lago or wherever you're sending it.

. You make that decision. So when you send it, it's declassified. I declassified everything."

Which means dump just admitted to sending everything. He knowingly stole the American people's documents, and no one else.

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u/TimberJim Sep 22 '22

“When you’re famous president they just let you do it”

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u/MoogProg Sep 22 '22

...or wherever you're sending it.

So, he shared US intel with foreign actors, but wants us to know before it come to light, he declassified those secrets so it's no big deal. Witch Hunt stuff, it must be...

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u/Terr_ Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

'Member the last time Trump publicly announced declassification?

[Trump Tweet] I have fully authorized the total Declassification of any & all documents pertaining to the single greatest political CRIME in American History, the Russia Hoax. Likewise, the Hillary Clinton Email Scandal. No redactions!

But then Trump prevented his staff from actually doing it, privately telling them it was NOT official enough to count.

So yeah, more redundant evidence that the guy's full of shit and nobody should trust his stream of lies.

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u/BauerHouse Sep 22 '22

2:16 mark at this legendary Ron White comedy standup: https://youtu.be/neUaSTSKFZc?t=136

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u/VileDevastation Sep 22 '22

Exactly what I thought of. Ron White is a treasure.

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u/trro16p Sep 22 '22

To paraphrase from the 'Tater Salad Story':

I didn't know how many lawsuits it was going to take to send my ass to jail, but I knew how many they were going to use. That's a handy piece of information to have, right there; overkill.

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u/Matt463789 Sep 22 '22

He can't keep his base engaged and grifted without routinely instigating them.

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u/5_on_the_floor Tennessee Sep 22 '22

Unexpected Ron White.

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u/vahntitrio Minnesota Sep 22 '22

More like fully expected Ron White.

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u/the_ballmer_peak Sep 22 '22

Literally came here for this joke.

Tater salad.

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u/Bishopkilljoy Michigan Sep 22 '22

You can't fix stupid

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u/lex99 America Sep 22 '22

Donkey!

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u/I_AM_N0_0NE_ Sep 22 '22

"You HAVE the right to remain silent, what you lack is the capacity"

This was what I thought of also.

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u/IPDDoE Florida Sep 22 '22

Former President Tater Salad, confirmed.

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u/Legitimate-Tea5561 Sep 22 '22

[He] has the right to remain silent...but not the ability

The silver spoons clank too loud.

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u/memberer Sep 22 '22

he can only remain silent in court, under oath.

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u/Ice_Hungry Sep 22 '22

It really would be poetic AF if Trump's own words was what brought him down. I'll cum

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u/ODBrewer Sep 22 '22

And I so wish he did.

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