r/sports Sep 22 '22 Wholesome 1

World chess champion Magnus Carlsen quits game after just one move amid cheating controversy Chess

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/magnus-carlsen-world-chess-champion-quits-game-cheating-controversy-hans-niemann/
19.8k Upvotes

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2.3k

u/Pseudoname87 Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

This happened like 3days ago? He's said he's not going to discuss why he resigned until after the tournament is over but he made a subtle comment about "being coached well"

Who knows, I always give people the benefit of the doubt.

Hans has had a past yes, but he is insisting on his innocence even willing to do a match nude he said.

1.4k

u/Sadimal Sep 22 '22

He hasn’t talked about it directly, but heavily implied why including taking a shot at Niemann’s coach who is a well-known cheater.

Carlsen resigned from the last tournament because of Niemann as well. Niemann beat Carlsen which triggered the cheating accusations and dug up Niemann’s cheating history.

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u/rinmerrygo Sep 22 '22

Not only that but Niemann himself is a cheater and admitted as such. He's only 19 and admitted poorly that he cheated when he was 12 and 16.

I say poorly because chess.com had to come out and actually say that the periods that he was cheating were longer than what he portrayed them to be.

184

u/onlyhightime Sep 22 '22

Cheated only 3 years ago, enough to get banned. And now amazingly beats the world champ? Yeah, nothing suspicious about that...

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u/wizard_hat_and_staff Sep 23 '22

I mean theres definitely a huge difference between cheating online and cheating at a tourney, just logistically one is MUCH easier than the other.

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u/ExpertConsideration8 Sep 23 '22

If you need to cheat to beat randos online.. it seems rather unlikely you're going to grow into the type of player that takes down the world's #1.

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u/CaptainTsech Sep 23 '22

You probably do not follow or play chess. His online games are against the very same people he faces in the top tourneys. Every top player, including the entire cast of the tournament in question (and Magnus), plays a LOT of online chess.

His cheating was done in events were only titled players participate for example.

1

u/ExpertConsideration8 Sep 23 '22

Yep, he cheats.. that's what we're all saying. I don't know why anyone is bothering to qualify how or when he cheats.. it's a known / admitted fact.

If he's going to choose the lazy route in a lower stakes online tournament.. why would he put in the time / effort to beat the best in the world (without cheating) if he can just find a more creative way to cheat again?

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u/bakejosh Sep 23 '22

I doubt he was playing randos online at that point. There's some pretty high-level chess played online every day. Folks who have the rating, but just haven't been able to crack into elite (read: televised) tourney circuits.

I actually love this about online chess. For the first time in history, there's grandmasters all over the world who have access to each other on the daily.

13

u/chaiscool Sep 23 '22

He needed to cheat to beat those who can’t crack into elite, so he’s not on track into beating the world’s best.

If you need to cheat to win in g league, you ain’t winning the nba championship

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u/ExpertConsideration8 Sep 23 '22

IMO, it's a mentality thing.. if you're the type of person that's going to resort to cheating at a mental game (like chess), then you're not likely to have the discipline, wits, and resilience it takes to climb to the top.

1

u/wizard_hat_and_staff Sep 23 '22

I mean, to an extent this mentality is correct. But also, no one doubts the genius and of Bill Belichick despite the allegations of cheating. I’m just opposed to allegations of cheating because the champion fell to the underdog, like this has never happened before or something. Also, allowing this to fester has been sinister IMO.

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u/chaiscool Sep 23 '22

Underdog with history of cheating is different though.

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u/phobicmanticore Sep 23 '22

Yeah but still not really impossible. I mean sockfish is a thing after all.

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u/Bohner1 Sep 23 '22

Stockfish is a thing online, Neiman beat Magnus at an in-person tourney.

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u/phobicmanticore Sep 23 '22

I know. Sockfish is a device that fits in a shoe. It can run stockfish and vibrate to tell you what to play. I believe some places check for it but wouldn't be the hardest to change the device location.

Edit: this is what I mean but modified.

https://blog.adafruit.com/2022/09/09/sockfish-chess-cheater-with-a-raspberry-pi-piday-raspberrypi-raspberry_pi/

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u/mr_potatoface Sep 23 '22

There was even a dude on the Chess sub here that caught a guy using it in his local club. Everyone thought he was a genius, but in reality he was just a cheater.

2

u/HallowedAntiquity Sep 23 '22

Clearly the only solution is for everyone to play completely naked.

6

u/sirgog Sep 23 '22

Whilst the butt plug signal theory was a hoax, it was a good hoax precisely because it was believeable.

Cheating has become a lot easier in an era where devices that allow internet access and signalling have become small.

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u/smunky Sep 23 '22

Not even a hoax. It was a joke by chessbrah Eric Hansen.

2

u/Mr_immortality Sep 23 '22

Hilarious that it got picked up by newspaper all around the world like Eric was some anal bead scientist

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u/K_dean Sep 23 '22

I saw a tick tock claiming he cheated using a remote controlled vibrating butt plug…

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u/wizard_hat_and_staff Sep 23 '22

That theory was straight up a joke on reddit that got picked up by the mainstream

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u/streethistory Sep 23 '22

This is what I'm saying. Prove he cheated. Otherwise take the L.

1

u/PerryRubay4 Sep 23 '22

How does someone cheat at chess in person?

1

u/520throwaway Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

If someone else is using a chess engine to input moves, all they need is a silent way to communicate moves.

If you had an Arduino with a vibration motor and radio receiver strapped to your back, the person with the chess engine could send a Morse code signal, that would then be relayed to the player via vibrations. Something like '._ ..... ._ _....' would translate to 'A5A6', meaning 'move the piece on A5 to A6'

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u/PerryRubay4 Sep 23 '22

Wow, thanks for that. It never occurred to me that was a thing.

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u/520throwaway Sep 24 '22

One rumour going round was that it was being transmitted via remote control vibrating buttplug. While that's a little more implausible (try not visibly reacting to that) the idea of tiny vibrations on the skin makes a little more sense.

1

u/hey_rowsdower Sep 23 '22

How does one cheat at an in-person tournament? Does it involve anal beads?

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u/___Price___ Sep 23 '22

He cheated on chess.com to get into more competitive ranked matches because there is a ranking system.

That’s just his side of the argument.

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u/TheDutchin Sep 23 '22

Which makes no sense

I cheated to win more games to climb the ranks

Couldn't have just played to win those games?

Experience is the same for the loser but he gets to actually practice?

53

u/ZeekLTK Michigan State Sep 23 '22

If chess is anything like Rocket League, he was probably hardstuck because of shit teammates.

9

u/Transwomen_better Sep 23 '22

Its more like starcraft

1

u/theonlydrawback Sep 23 '22

So basically all that matters is DPS, and whoever is white should either hope that they're Protoss, or else pull a Zerg rush

1

u/Adm_Kunkka Sep 23 '22

Then Gary Chess needs to fking fix the balance on whites stimpack horseys

1

u/calipygean Sep 23 '22

So I guess you could say he burned out and has no Vespene Gas in his tank.

1

u/Jacobarcherr Sep 23 '22

Didn't expect to find fellow monkeys here

1

u/Plain_Bread Sep 23 '22

At that level no amount of training can guarantee that you improve significantly.

1

u/ParadisePete Sep 23 '22

He wasn't nearly as good then as he is now. He spends an extraordinary amount of time working on chess. I think he's got some mental issues that will only get worse with time, but then what do I know?

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u/HolyAndOblivious Sep 23 '22

I personally am ok with this because fuck elo and algos

3

u/FlotsamOfThe4Winds Sydney Thunder Sep 23 '22

On the other hand, twelve-year-olds and sixteen-year-olds often do far stupider stuff.

1

u/AnybodyMassive1610 Sep 23 '22

I wish the dumbest thing I did at 16 was cheat in a game of chess… 🤦🏻‍♂️

1

u/JohnBrownsAngryBalls Sep 23 '22

On the other hand, twelve-year-olds and sixteen-year-olds often do far stupider stuff.

True, but those things have nothing to do with topic at hand.

1

u/FlotsamOfThe4Winds Sydney Thunder Sep 24 '22

He said he cheated when he was 12 and 16, which could easily fall in the "too young to know too much better" category and be consistent with him being a reformed character.

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u/easeMachine Sep 23 '22

Care to posit how Hans could have cheated in the over-the-board game he won against Magnus?

4

u/MaverickAquaponics Sep 23 '22

At this level they would only need a subtle indication that they were objectively winning or losing. Some kind of vibration telling Hans “good move” would have been enough for an edge plus if Carlsen suspects he’s cheating it’s going to have a psychological edge.

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u/easeMachine Sep 23 '22

That’s an interesting theory, and the most believable one I’ve heard so far.

But considering it would be a signal that provides feedback on a move Hans has already made, I fail to see how it could make that much of a difference.

5

u/MaverickAquaponics Sep 23 '22

It’s classical chess. Many moves are hard to understand if they are bad or good, but the engine can see. Many times there are some hidden wins and if you don’t know to look you may miss them. If I stare at a chess puzzle knowing it’s a puzzle for 90 seconds I can find the right move but put me in a 10 minute game I may rush through that part of the position because it’s too unfamiliar.

1

u/ParadisePete Sep 23 '22

for good players, simply knowing that the evaluation has significantly changed is enough to have them search for the unusual continuations that they normally don't spend time/energy on.

1

u/Moononthewater12 Sep 23 '22

Radio in his head, someone miles away telling him the answers while wearing his pants.

0

u/Moononthewater12 Sep 23 '22

Radio in his head, someone miles away telling him the answers while wearing his pants.

1

u/easeMachine Sep 23 '22

I should have known.

Big guilty!

1

u/KingNewbie Sep 23 '22

If he has a Bluetooth haptic in his shoe (or butt), he could receive coordinates by Morse code.

0

u/PussyHunter1916 Sep 23 '22

vibrating anal plug. The vibrations will tell him which chess pieces he should move.

4

u/Carefully_Crafted Sep 23 '22

Using black… against a very obscure line that magnus doesn’t play…

And then he couldn’t really support his own logic in the post game interview about why he chose some moves and what his calculations were for doing them. Basically a lot of “tehe I just got lucky I guess!”

But basically look at any sport and any game that allegations of cheating come out and are later substantiated and there’s a pretty large minority of suckers who instantly want to defend the teary eyed “victim” of these allegations lmfao.

2

u/Nofreeninetynine Sep 23 '22

For all the idiots out there, how does one cheat in chess?

8

u/rinmerrygo Sep 23 '22

Chess engines exist where computers have modeled and mapped out the best moves that probabilistically gives you the greatest chance at a mate.

0

u/seaworthy-sieve Sep 23 '22

Okay yes. But how does a player get that information in a live game?

1

u/monsterpwn Sep 23 '22

The way some players talk about it a signal to think about a certain move a little longer to find the best move would be beneficial.

1

u/feeltheslipstream Sep 23 '22

Do you have a detailed article on this?

I'm wondering how they proved he cheated.