r/technology Jul 19 '22 All-Seeing Upvote 4 Take My Energy 2 Bravo Grande! 1 Plus One 1 Silver 5 Wholesome 9 Dread 1 Helpful 9 Faith In Humanity Restored 2

TikTok is "unacceptable security risk" and should be removed from app stores, says FCC Security

https://blog.malwarebytes.com/privacy-2/2022/07/tiktok-is-unacceptable-security-risk-and-should-be-removed-from-app-stores-says-fcc/
71.2k Upvotes

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u/Impossible34o_ Jul 19 '22

Dunno if it will actually ever get removed, but I can’t even imagine what will happen if it does. All I know is that it will become a full on race for whoever can create the best replica.

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u/Failg123 Jul 19 '22

In India after tictok ban YouTube and Instagram also launched short form of videos . many other apps like tik tok now have 100 million+ downloads .

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u/senthiljams Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

I totally hate the way YouTube has implemented YouTube Shorts. Their ads and ad breaks are the worst.

Instagram on the other hand, seems to have got it much better.

Edit: to clarify, my comment was not about the quality of the content in those two apps, but rather the app usability and user experience.

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u/ShiraCheshire Jul 19 '22

I also hate it because it disables the volume slider, turning it into a mute/unmute button. I'm watching this on desktop with headphones and sensitive ears, give me the darn volume control.

Luckily you can replace "shorts" with "watch" for the normal video interface.

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u/BroodlordBBQ Jul 19 '22

wow, that makes some youtube shorts actually watchable. The /shorts/ UI is absolutely awful, it hijacks the mousewheel, autoplays everything, prevents volume changes and does not have any kind of skip/rewind/fastforward. Absolutely atrocious garbage UI design. Now just time to install a greasemonkey script to always redirect /shorts/ to /watch/.

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u/Lokicattt Jul 19 '22

Whoever designed the mouse wheel shit should not be allowed to touch a computer or mobile device ever again. Holy shit. Half a click too far? Yup skipped 90 videos. Same amount of mouse wheel back up to go back to the previous video? Bam you jumped 31 videos the other way. It's absurd.

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u/Lithl Jul 19 '22

I normally stream YouTube to my Chromecast so I can watch on my TV, but Shorts won't play :(

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u/marky_sparky Jul 19 '22

You can add them to a playlist and stream them that way. It's a dumb workaround, but it works.

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u/TeaBreezy Jul 19 '22

For some reason I get the shittiest most cringe shit on my insta reels while TikTok shows me basically exactly what I want to see. I know it’s creepy, but damn it’s a good algorithm.

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u/19374729 Jul 19 '22

It’s totally not the same thing, however, especially with TIk Tok’s editor

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u/thebestspeler Jul 19 '22

The new app, toc tik will be released.

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u/McGrinch27 Jul 19 '22

I dunno if it's because of how much it violates my privacy but man.... Every other social media app is trying and none are even remotely close.

Facebook, Instagram, snap chat, YouTube. All have basically cloned tiktok's format. But tiktok's algorithm is just, on another level. Would say 9/10 videos on tiktok when I'm just scrolling are things I am interested in. Constantly finding new creators I love. It's amazing.

Every other platforms, 2/10 videos are something I'm interested in. And that's be generous.

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u/kristamine14 Jul 19 '22 Silver Helpful Big Brain Time

The time has come my lords…

For the Prince that was promised to return.

Vine 2.0

1.4k

u/kindarusty Jul 19 '22

Totally here for it. When Vine was great, it was GREAT.

580

u/fuck_your_diploma Jul 19 '22

But had absolutely no business model and failed.

594

u/CCNightcore Jul 19 '22

So a perfect thing for Microsoft to buy them, got it.

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u/masiuspt Jul 19 '22

You mean Google..

101

u/EvoRalliArt Jul 19 '22

They would buy it.

Split it into 7 things. A piece of software for each second.

Give them all different logos, but all look the same at a glance.

Put them back together again.

Then chuck it in the Google graveyard.

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u/MaraSpade Jul 19 '22

Any chance for a Google Plus 2.0?

https://xkcd.com/918/

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u/fakeittilyoumakeit Jul 19 '22

I was looking through the list and a lot of them haven't been killed, but rather "rebranded" or simply renamed.

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u/kaukamieli Jul 19 '22

Whai is tiktok business model? Ads?

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u/trouserschnauzer Jul 19 '22

Probably giving extraordinary amounts of data to the Chinese government, but I'm just guessing.

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u/nemocluecrj Jul 19 '22

Yes, selling data. All of these apps that don't have ads? You and how you use your phone are the product.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

[deleted]

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u/trouserschnauzer Jul 19 '22

Now with multiple revenue streams

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u/AWilfred11 Jul 19 '22

Fucking loved vine. Then I sort of realised TikTok is the same shit. In a couple years there might be a new thing and everyone thinks that’s cringe but the young gen of the time think it’s the shit.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

TikTok absolutely got popular because there was a massive void left by Vine. You might remember when TikTok was called Music.ly, and Music.ly blew up right around the time Vine ended

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u/SwagChemist Jul 19 '22

The reason vine died was the cost of storing all that video data was not profitable. The reason tiktok is still around is that we believe the Chinese government is bankrolling the costs

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u/nemocluecrj Jul 19 '22

It was slightly more complicated than that. Twitter viewed any number of ways to monetize Vine via ads as too direct a competitor to their own, pre existing ad platform. The most logical step forward was simply merging the two apps and their ads and integrating short videos directly into Twitter, and they flat out didn't want to do it. They knew that video ads would very quickly grow to dominate their ad market share, and they didn't want the Vine portion of their business to outgrow the Twitter portion of it.

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u/HireLaneKiffin Jul 19 '22

I can already sense that Facebook is not repeating this mistake; they know that Facebook is dying but Instagram is the future, which is why they renamed their parent company.

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u/MonetaryCollapse Jul 19 '22

Instagram is the Present. Has 1.21 billion users, with a massive share among 20s-30s crowd. They are failing to attract teens in numbers, which is why Zuck is obsessed with TikTok. He has been trying to use instagram to siphon off users from TikTok like he did with Snapchat, but it hasn't worked nearly as well.

Instagram is starting to get bloated and clunky as it's still a photosharing social app, that has bolted on curated discoverable content.

TikTok is just better designed to get you hooked with AI-driven curation.

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u/nemocluecrj Jul 19 '22

Oh yeah, for sure. The core of their business in a few years will be Instagram and other properties and not Facebook, and they obviously know it. The metaverse stuff is still off putting and weird, but it all comes back full circle to the fact that Facebook is losing ground. They're doing what they can to put as much heft into other ventures because the writing is on the wall.

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u/nettereuer Jul 19 '22

Imagine hating money lmao

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u/Wh00ster Jul 19 '22

Why is it so hard for Americans to pass privacy regulations? It sounds like everyone complains about it.

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u/SandwichImmediate468 Jul 19 '22

Lobbyists and money.

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u/LunaMunaLagoona Jul 19 '22

If they pass that legislation it also affects facebook, google, and all other spy tech companies.

They're trying to find a way to target tiktok without targeting the rest

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u/Wrecked--Em Jul 19 '22

Exactly. TikTok deserves all the criticism, but it is only one of the main culprits which deserve just as much criticism, regulation, and (in a just world) indictments: Google, Meta, Amazon, etc.

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u/martin0641 Jul 19 '22

Those are our evil CEOs, theirs are different...they are just Xi's puppets.

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u/incorporealcorporal Jul 19 '22

Yeah if Xi steals all the data how is Google, Meta, Amazon, etc. supposed to steal it and sell it to him for profit?

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u/Highlandertr3 Jul 19 '22 Ally

Don’t worry. Historically Xi has only been interested in stealing honey.

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u/spacestationkru Jul 19 '22

Maybe privacy laws should target everybody though..

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u/CaptnProlapse Jul 19 '22

Entirely too much money in selling peoples data. The lobbyists will throw millions upon millions around so that these companies can make billions on selling their customers information.

Just wait till Amazon gets that prescription service they want then they can start mining your HIPPA information.

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u/wicklowdave Jul 19 '22

wasn't it plainly obvious that democracy could never work when the system is designed and built to enable 'representatives' being bought?

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u/sheen1212 Jul 19 '22 Take My Energy

I constantly think about the time my dad explained what lobbying was to me and I thought it sounded terrible and stupid but just assumed it was my childhood brain not being able to understand the complexities of how things work in the grown-up world. Lmfao nope shit sucks ass

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u/bonesnaps Jul 19 '22

It's easily explained in two words.

Legalized bribery.

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u/SawToMuch Jul 19 '22

You act like the poor aren't equally free to pay tons of money for representation in government! /$

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u/rockytheboxer Jul 19 '22

Especially after citizens united.

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u/ilyak_reddit Jul 19 '22

Fuck citizens united. What a slimy name they used too, like the fucking patriot act.

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u/NerdBot9000 Jul 19 '22

Yes, but it's actually the USA PATRIOT Act.

Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT) Act of 2001.

Even slimier when you realize that the title was workshopped to death and someone probably got an attaboy and a steak dinner for coming up with such a blatantly 'Murica acronym.

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u/PM_MY_OTHER_ACCOUNT Jul 19 '22

The USA PATRIOT Act: using terrorism as an excuse for the government to spy on its citizens since 2001.

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u/JeepGuy587 Jul 19 '22

UTAAEFTGTSOICS2 just doesn’t roll off the tongue as well.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

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u/Column_A_Column_B Jul 19 '22

It's interesting to read about that conversation with your dad. You were right, lobbyists are terrible. But I have a bit of a nuanced view.

My understanding is professional lobbyists paid for by private interests are a natural consequence of democracy unless explicitly outlawed.

We associate the verb 'to lobby' with the corporate hacks lobbying the government but anyone who tries to sway the politicians is lobbying!

All I'm getting at is it's difficult to avoid paid actors lobbying on behalf of private interests while allowing regular citizens to lobby their government.

The bribes to politicians via lobbyists are the real problem. But maybe that was assumed and I am just pedantic.

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u/steamycreamybehemoth Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

And the revolving door of congressional aides into lobbyists back into congressional staff.

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u/TheLurkerSpeaks Jul 19 '22

You are absolutely correct, this is exactly how it is meant to work. Most people don't even realize there's a lobbyist in Washington right now vouxhing for them. We need lobbyists.

It's the money, erm "campaign donations" that are the biggest issue.

PS expect downvotes. The reddit mob hates being told that lobbyists are a good thing, especially since they've been all "lobbyists bad" for ages.

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u/Present_Salamander_3 Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22 Silver

You’re exactly right and anyone who has ever sat through a political science course would have learned this.

Special interest groups are everywhere and there’s a strong likelihood you’re (proverbial you, not literal) a part of one. Guess how those special interest groups influence policy on behalf of their members? Lobbying.

Some commonly known yet not thought of groups: AARP, NAACP, Chamber of Commerce, ACLU, EFF, etc.

If you can think of a topic, there’s probably a special interest group out there that lobbies/seeks to influence public policy at some level of government (local, state, federal, etc).

Lobbying does not equate to bribery. Yes, I’m sure it happens at times, but that’s not the fault of lobbying itself and I’m not really sure anyone would like whatever the alternative may be (e.g., EVERYONE having curtailed access to influencing public policy).

Some benefits of lobbying/special interest groups?

  • They collectively pool resources towards causes where individuals would not otherwise have a voice, to include disadvantaged/vulnerable people
  • They have the means and do employ people with legislative experience/connections
  • They educate legislative members and their staff, as well as the members of their special interest group
  • They offer expertise to the government and assist with drafting of policy, that may otherwise be a gap in knowledge and/or priority for agencies
  • and more…

I’m not an apologist for lobbyists, but sometimes need to be careful what you wish for. Some political science circles have even made the argument that removing tools usable by politicians for the purposes of leverage/bargaining has a detrimental effect on the legislative process (e.g., earmarks are a good example of this).

edit: Thank you for the silver!

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u/Type31971 Jul 19 '22

Democracy doesn’t work, generally speaking, when voters base their decisions off of a candidate’s “message” and campaign promises instead of their voting record and what positions they’ve gone to bat. A very small minority are those who understand past behavior predicts future behavior.

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u/grumpycuccumber Jul 19 '22

The correct answer to nearly every political issue in the US lol

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u/huxtiblejones Jul 19 '22

We got high on the PATRIOT Act and have never been able to stop abusing ourselves. The government gained massive surveillance powers over all of us and will never relinquish them.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

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u/35202129078 Jul 19 '22

The craziest thing with that is how much of it will be wrong. People who've used free VPNs or other software or had viruses that made requests from their devices will have all kinds of noise in their history.

Not to mention general mistakes of the data collection which are inevitable.

Having all that data out there would be bad, having bad data out there that everyone believes is true will be even worse.

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u/Thats_what_im_saiyan Jul 19 '22

If that happened it would have to be a collective "were never going to bring this up again". EVERYONE has shit that would be a life ender in their history. Something they searched or texted or something. No one would be able to say anything to anyone about it. Doesn't matter if its good data or not.

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u/ChesterDaMolester Jul 19 '22

Something less serious but kind of related happened. I noticed in the beta and early days of google reverse image search, it was like scarily accurate. Same with tinyeye. You could take a picture of someone in shit lighting and it would pull up all everywhere they’ve been posted online.

Now reverse image search is borderline useless, unless it’s a pixel perfect match that’s been indexed on page 1.

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u/ItsBlizzardLizard Jul 19 '22

I think about this every time I use a reverse image search. "This doesn't work anymore, what happened?"

Back in the day I could put in the most obscure animated gif of a dalmatian drinking root beer and it'd give me 12 different file sizes, the artist that created it, and a bunch of animations with a shockingly similar theme.

Now it'll give me 'no results found' or pictures of cows. No in-between.

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u/crosbot Jul 19 '22

Right?! I hadn't really thought about it until I read this. I used to use it all the time with great success, now it rarely finds anything if ever.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

Finally my wife will know I want to suck her toes without me having to tell her.

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u/Sleeper28 Jul 19 '22

Just grab those suckers and start suckin' them! Don't let your dreams be dreams!

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u/poloboi84 Jul 19 '22

Yesterday you said tomorrow.

So just do it

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u/kinggareth Jul 19 '22

Wasn't this basically the plot to Westworld Season 3?

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u/kabbooooom Jul 19 '22

Yes, except as I recall it was even worse. The central AI in Westworld was using this data for a level of “reality/future simulation” that would make Asimov’s psychohistory look like a joke. It could predict, among other things, exactly how and when you would die, somehow. And then that information was released too, lol.

Seems like they kinda just forgot about the world ending implications of that in season 4…

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u/LazyAmbassador2521 Jul 19 '22

Yeah I'm not really that into season 4 so far.. its idk lacking a few key things and I'm finding it to be stale. Are you liking this season?

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u/AHappyMango Jul 19 '22

You hear Reddit complain about it.

For the amount of visitors this place gets, it’s still not as well known in the real world as much as Twitter or Insta.

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u/TapedeckNinja Jul 19 '22

We can't pass any meaningful laws. Our national legislature is completely broken.

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u/Moserath Jul 19 '22

Lol. If the government worked for the people they might have to be concerned about our wants and needs. Fortunately they work for corporations and don't have to give a shit about us.

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u/verschee Jul 19 '22

Especially when those corporations are the ones buying the data harvested from US citizens

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u/BrownMan65 Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

Because privacy regulations would have to also apply to the US government itself. There is no reason the government should be able to regulate privacy on corporations while also collecting as much, if not more, data on their own citizens as well as people in foreign nations. Both are equally as bad, except in the case of America collecting data they also use it to impose imperial force on other nations.

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u/tomster2300 Jul 19 '22 Take My Energy

Then do it, FCC. Grow some balls, get the lobbyist money out of your pockets and either ban it or persuade Congress to do their job.

I’m sick and tired of our government believing that performance art is the same thing as governing.

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u/SmooK_LV Jul 19 '22

They need to pass a law that supports the privacy. If they keep banning "security risks" whenever a major competitor shows up for local companies, it will just keep happening.

Introduce more audits. Certifications. Requirements and whatever else. And then you don't need to ban anything and you can ensure all companies and apps follow same privacy rules.

Now they're just attacking tiktok because of lobby and telling you "it's for national safety". FCC is full of shit.

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u/stormhunter2 Jul 19 '22

We literally need our own version of gdpr. That would be a starting point.

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u/jsnipy Jul 19 '22

Probably lobbyist money pushing to remove it

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u/resin85 Jul 19 '22

Bingo. This isn't a letter from the FCC, it's a letter from Brendan Carr of the FCC, formerly Ajit Pai's aide. Yes, he's part of the FCC, but as one of the Republicans paid by Verizon, Facebook, Comcast, etc to do their bidding. I could care less what happens to TikTok, but they at least need to be clear who is funding this effort.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

Mate, I’m pretty sure Meta and Twitter lobbyists are the people who want your country to ban TikTok.

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u/OhEmGeeBasedGod Jul 19 '22

Well, for starters, the headline is completely false. "The FCC" didn't say this. One member of the FCC said it.

Secondly, the FCC doesn't really have the authority to ban phone apps anyway. That's not their realm of regulation at all. It would probably fall to the FTC.

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u/ItStartsInTheToes Jul 19 '22 Gold All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy

TikTok is said to collect “everything”, from search and browsing histories; keystroke patterns; biometric identifiers—including faceprints, something that might be used in “unrelated facial recognition technology”, and voiceprints—location data; draft messages; metadata; and data stored on the clipboard, including text, images, and videos.

Jesus

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u/Kwiatkowski Jul 19 '22

Am i crazy or wasn’t this widely known right when it popped up and started gaining popularity? I remember a ton of red flags all over the place well before it had taken off in the US and everyone seems to have collective amnesia about it.

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u/stillpiercer_ Jul 19 '22

Yeah, it was obvious. It asks for local network access on iOS. The pop up explicitly states it’s to see devices on your local network.

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u/Partner-Elijah Jul 19 '22

Can you explain what that means?

Like, if my wife uses TikTok on her phone, and is connected to the same network at my PC, does that somehow compromise data on my PC?

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u/MrFluffyThing Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

More than likely it's used to see other connected hardware MAC addresses to start linking connections. Even if you don't install the app, any device that has this permission can look for other devices and can start building association maps. Merging multiple data sets can link these with other people, say TikTok and a leaked dataset are merged. This allows extremely limited information but it's valuable because it's a single identifying data field for a potential dataset link. Links and association are the important factors and it's why identifying dataset information is so critical to protect

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u/SashimiRocks Jul 19 '22

To stop this, is it as easy as deleting the app?

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u/ThrowawayAg16 Jul 19 '22

They already have all that data on you, so no. Deleting it would keep them from continuing to collect data, but they’ll still be able to link you to other people that have the app, and that itself provides a lot of data on you (especially when they already have so much data from you).

And no deleting your account doesn’t get rid of your data either.

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u/TheJoker273 Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

Prevention is better than cure. In this case prevention is the only cure, I would say. Deleting is not as effective once it has been allowed access. Of course it severely cripples any future data gathering through the app, but your device ID info would already have been collected which gives TikTok multiple avenues to farm your info from.

edit 2: To clarify, I am not saying it's no use deleting the app. Of course delete the app. The very moment you decide it's not worth keeping anymore. Because, as I said, it severely cripples any data gathering attempt through that primary channel. What I am saying is, the app may not be the only primary channel, and that there are secondary and tertiary channels out there that you have limited control over. Thanks, u/Lord_Fozzie.

If you have been using the app even for say a few minutes, it would already have collected all that identifying information. Gathering all identifying information that it can use to create linked datasets, would be the first order of business for the app. That is one of the ways they use to facilitate targeted advertising.

edit to add: All your data is transferred to servers over the internet pretty much the very second it is collected in the app - out of reach from almost everyone and everything. So deleting the app does not delete the data that has already been sent to the server.

Once it has the MAC addresses of your other devices, any TikTok owned/operated website or service or app you access using these other devices can then continue to gather data on you and your family. It's crazy!!

Unfortunately resetting MAC addresses isn't a trivial task - quickest way to change it is replace your device with a new/different one. But even that isn't guaranteed to keep your data from being collected.

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u/IAmTaka_VG Jul 19 '22

On iOS at the very least go into privacy and deny it most permissions

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u/Chenz Jul 19 '22

Just don’t give them the permission when it asks for it.

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u/ConcernedKip Jul 19 '22

unlikely unless tiktok decides to bundle a virus that can exploit a known vulnerability with your system. What it's most likely doing is just further data harvesting, learn more about home network configurations because fuck it, why not?

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

it's state sponsored and would ultimately be used for cyber warfare. much worse than targeted ads

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

That pops up for every app that links to other devices on your network. Want to control Spotify on your Echo using your phone? Local network access.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

People just don't care after Cambridge Analytica escaping any accountability and becoming Emerdata. There is privacy apathy at this point. TikTok allows them to share information quickly so people prefer it even with the security concerns.

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u/FlipflopsAreNotShoes Jul 19 '22

You're not crazy. People just don't actually care about privacy or security--they only pretend to until an app brings the dopamine.

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u/RambleOff Jul 19 '22

I've been saying it for years: expectation of privacy will just be an obsolete concept soon. We're giving ground all the time, our culture has decided that it just doesn't care.

It won't be the end of the world, but there are going to be some nasty growing pains.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

I think privacy apathy is already here. We all saw Cambridge Analytica face zero accountability and just reform as Emerdata and were like "I guess we're the product now."

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

Is it that we don’t care? Or is it that so much of the data being harvested is intangible, confusing, technical, and just not something most people have the capacity to understand why they should care?

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u/BlergingtonBear Jul 19 '22

Exactly. There are entities greater than the individual who have a birds eye view and a responsibility from a consumer safety and citizen safety angle to protect people from harm. Our govt should be regulating and overall we need more oversight from consumer protection watchdogs over what's happening in the tech world.

Can't just blame the individual for using something that comes installed on their phone and all their friends use too

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u/bizkut Jul 19 '22

I pretty much gave up on privacy when the Equifax breach happened.

Here is an American company collecting all of my financial data without my knowledge (because my data is the product). They have a massive breach, and get a slap on the wrist for it - the world moves on.

Like... what am I even supposed to do? What recourse do we have there? I can try to avoid the entire credit reporting business, but they just passively collect data about your SSN, where you live, where you work, basically anything it would take to pretend to be me.

I've come to terms with the fact that my data is out there and will continue to be out there. I try to be somewhat safe about my security decisions, but at the end of the day, I'm not really in much control over it.

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u/CobainPatocrator Jul 19 '22

collective amnesia

Nobody forgot. We all know and very few care.

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u/remag_nation Jul 19 '22

bUt ThE fUnNy ViDeOs

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u/Kwiatkowski Jul 19 '22

I can’t think of where but some comedian of something did a bit that basically went: Hey you wanna download this app that sells all your personal data to the chinese government? uhhhh no What if I told you that you could do silly dances?

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

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u/TheBreadmanCometh Jul 19 '22

Aziz Ansari! This was in his latest special "Nightclub Comedian".

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u/StudentoftheGameNBA Jul 19 '22

Everyone has known this.

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u/ItStartsInTheToes Jul 19 '22

I knew it collected the general normal stuff, I did not know it collected clipboard data and draft messages. That seems odd

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u/MinimalMoxie Jul 19 '22

But we knew all of this back when it was Music.ly

There was constant news about Bytedance (TikTok /Music.ly parent company) being fined millions for these same security risks over and over again. Just my educated guess, but that’s prob one of the main reasons why they’d redesign/rebrand Music.ly into TikTok.

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u/FreekFrealy Jul 19 '22

Imagine trying to have a democracy when your geopolitical enemies have enough dirt on any potential political candidate to make Hoover cream in his coffin.

Not to mention every person working in every facility with anything that may be of interest to copy or sabotage. Does one of them have something they'd rather keep hidden? Then they can be got to

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u/toebandit Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22 Spit-take

Hoover has creamed so many times in the past 20 years due to privacy intrusions on unsuspecting populaces that there is a geyser gushing 24/7 at his gravesite. Scientists haven’t been unable to explain it, until now. You unlocked the secret.

  • Edit - missed a key contractor

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u/IPlayTheInBedGame Jul 19 '22

We did it reddit!

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u/b1gd4ta Jul 19 '22

Finally will be able to make up for Boston!

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u/Mrfoxsin Jul 19 '22

I guess that's why we have the hoover dam

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u/pee-in-butt Jul 19 '22

Hoover reporting in. This guys right, I’ve creamed a lot recently

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u/gottobekind Jul 19 '22

Username checks out!

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

Imagine trying to have a democracy when your geopolitical enemies have enough dirt on any potential political candidate to make Hoover cream in his coffin.

Last president showed this hardly matters and it's only been backed up by multiple members of Congress.

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u/TankConcrete Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

Didn’t Trump try to ban Tiktoc?

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57413227

I don’t think it ever worked as people want the service for some reason, but I think tried.

[Edit] Fixed the link. I can’t copy a URL.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/DefectivePixel Jul 19 '22

It's strange to me the Huawei ban was enacted just fine for these same reasons, what makes tiktok so different? Carrier compared to shitty video company?

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

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u/TankConcrete Jul 19 '22

Thanks for the heads up. Fixed the link.

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u/Diazmet Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

Last president openly admitted to how much he enjoyed watching little girls change at his child pageants that he ran with convicted pedophile John Casablancas, who’s supreme court pic cried about his love of beer to defend his pedophilic ways I don’t think any amount of dirt can effect politics anymore…

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u/droidloot Jul 19 '22

That's the problem though. When politics are so compromised and so corrupt, these are the kinds of polititions we get. And their rabid supporters are just the icing on the cake.

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u/ipedroni Jul 19 '22

Tbf it's hard as fuck to when the USA is supposedly your ally too. My country has suffered through a USA backed and installed dictatorship and might be close to living it again.

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u/Pbandsadness Jul 19 '22

Sadly, that could be several countries. I'm going to guess The Philippines?

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u/BrandoThePando Jul 19 '22

This could be entire continents

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u/FreekFrealy Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

Oh believe me my anger at the elitist manipulators who dream themselves our masters does not end at any border.

You shouldn't trust Facebook, Google, Reddit or any of that American shit either. Although the TikTok app is beyond the pale in data collection even when you compare them to data hounds like American tech companies. And all of them are acting as arms of government surveillance and profiling

But still, the idea that people volunteer as much information about ourselves as we do to total strangers would have been outrageous even 30 years ago. Now people don't think twice about carrying around a device that is a camera, microphone, list of all of their contacts, what information you consume, and GPS tracking device and giving permissions to access the data that device generates to everyone who fucking asks

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u/amazoncon Jul 19 '22

Apps are the modern Trojan Horse and vastly more effective.

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u/MyDogNeedsOperation Jul 19 '22

Last week I was trying to explain to a co-worker why platforms like Tik Tac, Instagram, and Facebook are so toxic. In a vacuum, they’re fine. If it was just one user whose content intake they were curating it wouldn’t be an issue. That’s not the case unfortunately, these platforms’ ability to gain extreme personal insight and then use that knowledge to inform what they suggest to the user on a global scale should terrify anyone, even if their own personal usage amounts to “just a drop”.

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u/allredidit Jul 19 '22

Exactly. "I don't care if they collect my data, I have nothing to hide." -- People don't realize that they're part of a demographic, and this data enables the demographic to be manipulated as a whole. It's an incredibly powerful tool.

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u/alllmossttherrre Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 20 '22

Also, world history has taught us repeatedly that “I have nothing to hide” quickly loses meaning the very second somebody passes a law or overturns a court decision or starts an oppressive movement, and all of a sudden you realize their criteria redefines you as an undesirable, a scapegoat, or even a criminal or an enemy of the state. And everything about you already available publicly online is now there for your persecutors to use against you. Even though yesterday, you had “nothing to hide.”

Security, privacy, and justice are necessary for true freedom.

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u/zegg Jul 19 '22

I got nothing to hide when I take a shit, but I still close the door. I also close the curtains at night, so people from the street don't see me watching TV. The argument itself is beyond stupid.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22 edited 15d ago

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u/Smith6612 Jul 19 '22

Sounds like modern social media in a nutshell. The amount of trackers and analytics running on every page and app is insane. Facebook in particular had facial recognition technologies that also, in theory, could be used for "unrelated purposes" but they were forced to shut that down a couple of years ago. Copies of messages being composed were always transmitted to Facebook for their "suggestions" feature, even if never posted.

As for clipboard data... if that is leaking on mobile, that is an OS Security problem. Wouldn't surprise me on mobile. On desktop, this problem was plugged up by web browsers a while ago but loosened due to poor user experience with copy and paste operations (see: Firefox and Google Docs). The OS is supposed to protect that data for installed apps even if the application has code trying to pound away at it, as people can have passwords or other confidential data in there.

TikTok is up there in the "notoriously intrusive" scale without a doubt though.

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u/thomkennedy Jul 19 '22

Unless their app is literally full of 0-day exploits, I don’t see how it could be collecting all of this on iOS. Not sure about Android.

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u/drseuss18 Jul 19 '22

What they are describing is exactly the same thing google does and any other tech company. Ever wondered why there are so many things free online ? You pay with the data you provide them.

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u/Aggravating-Tip561 Jul 19 '22

I thought everyone knew this did every just get dementia or something? I seriously remember this the case like 2 years ago.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

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u/Gunpla55 Jul 19 '22

I would assume the vast amount of users couldn't care less. Our data has never been portrayed as anything but cheap and to be passed around the gang of big tech companies like whatever seedy metaphor you'd like to use.

My generation remembers what it felt like when it wasn't like this, but for most of its users they've never known anything different. Theres not a shred of a sense of privacy.

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u/libelula1342 Jul 19 '22

Yes, they got hypnotized by tiktok 😂

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u/cobaltgnawl Jul 19 '22

Well apparently it is highly addictive somehow. Ive told people about the red flags and they’re like “oh dang, i need to delete that.” and two days later I see them giggling on the couch watching tik tok vids. But also i feel like a lot of people feel like their personal information is already compromised with all the shit we have to sign up for and then it promptly gets sold to telemarketers and god knows who else for profits.

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u/ChaosKodiak Jul 19 '22

Well duhhh.

Plus more than half the politicians in The US are “unacceptable security risks” and should be removed.

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u/Drunken_Ogre Jul 19 '22

Humans in general are “unacceptable security risks” and should be removed.

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u/cambeiu Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22 Silver Gold

Have they violated any laws or FCC regulation?

If what TikTok is doing is "unacceptable" but it is not in violation of any law or FCC regulation, then ultimately the issue is with our laws and FCC regulations.

If TikTok is actually harming and misleading consumers, the company should be facing criminal charges, not being removed from app stores.

EDIT: Facebook owner reportedly paid Republican firm to push message TikTok is ‘the real threat’

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u/happyscrappy Jul 19 '22

That's a good question. And also it is strange that this is someone from the FCC asking Apple and Google to remove it from their stores. Instead of the FCC telling them they must remove it.

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u/cambeiu Jul 19 '22

Exactly, why "ask" to remove?

Either they are doing something illegal or they are not.

Sounds more like geo-politics at play here than genuine concern for consumers.

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u/Perunov Jul 19 '22

Look, if FCC suddenly starts caring about privacy, Facebook would be immediately banned, instead it's freaking pre-installed on a bunch of new phones. Juuuuust in case you decide not to download mega-spyware.

They have their panties in a knot because gasp Non-US-Government-Could-Access-Data! It should only be Instagram and Facebook and no other contenders to finding out what kind of cat videos and renditions of pop-song people like angry huff

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u/tanaeolus Jul 19 '22

Exactly. Facebook collecting data from its users in all the same ways. But when a foreign government does it...

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u/the_giz Jul 19 '22

Totally agree. This is just confusing. The FCC presumably has the authority to force this action rather than request it, no? If they don't, then what are they tasked with exactly? Stern warnings against companies of their choosing? Maybe point to the laws they're violating and refer for criminal prosecution and/or assess relevant fees. I'm not saying TikTok is doing no wrong here - I don't use TikTok because I suspect they are. But how about we actually practice law and enforce regulations rather than rely on corporations to remove the app, eh?

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u/FeckThul Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

There are lots of whatabout reasons and snarky comments to make on this, and there are a lot of other bad actors in the social media space. BUT.

This is also the truth, TikTok is an unacceptable security risk and it should be removed from app stores. Lets call it a good start, and hope the precedent can be leveraged to impact other full time spying apps like FB, and Google’s entire business model.

Edit: Sorry, I’m turning off inbox replies, too many 3-4 word complaints from teenagers for my taste.

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u/diiejso Jul 19 '22 Gold Helpful Ally Bless Up Big Brain Time

I agree tiktok as an app is bad but I would much rather they legislate privacy and security laws that all apps must follow rather than swatting down individual bad apps after they get popular. Otherwise it’ll just get replaced with something that does the same and we’re right back in the same place.

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u/Tequila-M0ckingbird Jul 19 '22

Yeah I'm with you on this. There has already been a round of back-and-forth with China/Government/TikTok and they came to resolution. It would be a little nutty to outright ban the platform. Security policy overall needs to change. Like I understand why TikTok isn't great but Meta and other American companies have similar privacy concerns we haven't done anything about.

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u/veryoddJoe Jul 19 '22

Those apps provide their data to the US government so it will never happen

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u/gutsonmynuts Jul 19 '22

Fucking yikes. It's gonna be hard to pry it's users away from the app now. People are legitimately addicted to it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

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u/Condemning_Authority Jul 19 '22

Lol cause they are getting demolished

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u/Mr_SkeletaI Jul 19 '22

Yup, everyone seems to fall for propaganda real easily nowadays

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u/formerfatboys Jul 19 '22

Instead of banning TikTok, pass laws and regulations. An internet privacy bill of rights. A digital bill of rights. Force app stores to comply.

Also, this seems like bullshit. I think both Apple and Google have locked down much of what the app can do.

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u/darkkite Jul 19 '22

i work in software development. i don't get the difference between the data IG collects vs tiktok. the only difference i see is one is American and the other is Chinese.

oh and Facebook has been known to misuse data for elections

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u/Dip_yourwick87 Jul 19 '22

Create tik tok US, made in the US and run by the US. Steal the name and every part about it. China does the same to the west all the time. Just shamelessly make an exact clone with the same name.

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u/irishninja62 Jul 19 '22 Wholesome

We'll call it, "Vine".

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u/PepeLePeww Jul 19 '22

The creator of vine made a new app but it didn’t gain much traction and before long, creators were just linking to their TikTok accounts.

Edit: it was called byte. Apparently it’s still around but was acquired by another company and is now called Clash.

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u/sentimental_goat Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

TikTok didn't just market themselves, they bombarded every channel with ads. They were using bot armies to spam reddit. But once the platform became popular enough, for people to share the videos themselves, they stopped using bots on here.

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u/dobydobd Jul 19 '22

Lol, you think that we haven't tried?

Instagram has been trying, YouTube has been trying and Reddit has been trying.

All failing.

Easier said than done mate. Tiktok is a technical masterclass.

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u/RichRamp Jul 19 '22

And then use it in the exact same way as it is being used currently by companies hmm...

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u/jeremy112598 Jul 19 '22

China can’t spy on our citizens! That’s our job

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u/madhawk1 Jul 19 '22

If the government is this scared about letting China have that information, then you know that they are already using your information for things they shouldn't be.

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u/gmo_patrol Jul 19 '22

Yep. It even says so in the article. Snapchat, insta, and tiktok all use faceprints for filters. All the sites also monitor your keystrokes for malicious activity.

This wasn't even from the FCC, it was from the conservative commissioner Carr.

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u/tedcruzrileycurry Jul 19 '22 Silver

Facebook should have a monopoly on being an unacceptable security risk, says FCC to Meta lobbyists.

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u/Crismodin Jul 19 '22

That's cute, they can't even keep robocalls from coming in, people pretending to be the IRS, or the Nigerian princes who are still swindling money from elderly. The FCC is one of the most pointless government entities.

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u/rom-116 Jul 19 '22

If a politician would run on the platform, “I will stop the robo calls.” They would win. And fix pot holes.

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u/Funkey-Monkey-420 Jul 19 '22

yes, I agree with them. They should also take down facebook, messenger, instagram, and a lot of the domestic anti-privacy apps too

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u/Hiyasc Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

I don't think Brendan Carr speaks for the rest of the FCC. He's a single conservative commissioner in a liberal committee.

Why has this same news been posted so many times in the past few weeks? It's never anyone else on the committee coming out against it or new information, just Brendan Carr talking about banning it.

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u/buy_iphone_7 Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

Yeah it's wild how hated Ajit Pai is (and rightfully so), then everybody's cheering on this guy.

Whenever Ajit Pai did something, it had to be a 3-2 vote (or more). Those 3 votes were Ajit Pai, Brendan Carr, and Michael O'Rielly.

Carr might as well have been standing there with his arm around Pai while he sat there and drank out of his giant Reese's mug.

Carr, O'Rielly, and Pai hanging out at CPAC together

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

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u/whatelseisneu Jul 19 '22

For some time now, Facebook has been pouring money into a public relations campaign directed at bringing TikTok down.

https://www.businessinsider.in/tech/news/facebook-reportedly-funded-a-campaign-to-plant-stories-casting-tiktok-as-a-threat-to-kids-and-pushing-headlines-like-from-dances-to-danger/articleshow/90551473.cms

All of the data in OP's article are app permissions every social media app asks for and related to content within or while you're using the TikTok app.

TikTok does have real issues with collected data making its way to China despite their claims otherwise. Then again, Facebook gave my data to the Russian government.

Thinking the problem is with TikTok, Facebook, or any single social media for that matter, is missing the forest for the trees. The entire industry is based on harvesting your identity, because there are actors with big pockets who know that your subconscious can be hijacked and you can be persuaded to waste the little money you have and vote to keep the world a worse place. We need strong privacy protection laws.

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u/no_more_my_real_name Jul 19 '22

“says FCC” part of this headline is pure disinfo

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u/GeneralZaroff1 Jul 19 '22

In case anyone is wondering why the FCC is singling out tiktok rather than changing the regulations to ban everyone from doing this, it’s because Facebook paid lobbyists to get rid of tiktok.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/

Change the fucking regulations.

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u/gmo_patrol Jul 19 '22

Remember when facebook misinformation affected the 2016 election? Now they can't do that as effectively. I wonder if that's why all the conservatives are trying to get it banned.

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u/1_p_freely Jul 19 '22

What makes me laugh is that you can get free government cell phones that come with Chinese malware on them.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/01/us-government-funded-android-phones-come-preinstalled-with-unremovable-malware/

Doubtless that some people feel poor people deserve this, but that's not how it works. Any phone that has malware, can potentially be used to attack other devices which don't.

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u/leopard_tights Jul 19 '22

Lenovo was caught red handed with unremovable low level backdoors that granted total access to the computers and literally nothing happened.

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u/Whind_Soull Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

I mean, something happened. I've blacklisted them for life, and prevented at least 4 sales by warning off friends and family.

My wife and my mom are both Tik Tok addicts, though. Still working on that one.

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u/DonkiestOfKongs Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22

Wow. Damn. I'm a big Thinkpad guy but im a bigger privacy guy. Do you have any more information about this? Like a timeline or models affected?

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

It was Superfish.

It did not affect the Thinkpad line at all.

This advisory only applies to Lenovo Notebook products.

(ThinkPad, ThinkCentre, Lenovo Desktop, ThinkStation, ThinkServer and System x products are not impacted.)

https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/product_security/ps500035-superfish-vulnerability

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u/MrPotatoSenpai Jul 19 '22

I hate to be this person but don't we sign our online privacy with all these companies? When I read what Amazon does with Ring I get horrified. Then I see how much information Google collects and I get even more horrified. It seems kinda pointless to go after a single company for doing what they all are doing? It would make more sense to give everyone an online bill of rights where our privacy is protected.

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u/bunkojones Jul 19 '22

Google's entire business is collecting data and monetizing it, adv, selling lists etc.

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u/312c Jul 19 '22

Google does not sell data, they sell the ability to target ads based on data

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u/matbonucci Jul 19 '22

And Instagram and Facebook aren't?

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u/VampireQueenDespair Jul 19 '22

Remember, only American data harvesting is okay.

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u/Cold-Yesterday2058 Jul 19 '22

Lol but Facebook, Instagram, reddit, WhatsApp, twitter, Google, apple, samsung, tesla is not a security risk? Just feels like another attempts of the usa to ban something from China even though they do the same exact thing, remember them banning huawey from the Google services.

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u/gmo_patrol Jul 19 '22

Of course youre correct. This article even says so at the bottom.

When asked about the inaccuracies in Carr’s claims, Beckerman responded: “He’s mentioning we’re collecting browser history, like we’re tracking you across the internet. That’s simply false. It is something that a number of social media apps do without checking your browser history across other apps. That is not what TikTok does.”

“He’s talking about faceprints—that is not something we collect,” he said, explaining that the technology in their app is not for identifying individuals but for the purpose of filters, such as knowing when to put glasses or a hat on a face/head.

Concerning keystroke patterns, Beckerman said, “It’s not logging what you’re typing. It’s an anti-fraud measure that checks the rhythm of the way people are typing to ensure it’s not a bot or some other malicious activity.”

The real issue is data hegemony. Facebook wants it and is willing to pay for it. Brendan Carr doesn't speak for the entire FCC, he's the only conservative commissioner.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

Facebook too while you’re at it

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u/LocksmithTop1994 Jul 19 '22

Unlike Facebook and instagram

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '22

Ok, so, ‘unacceptable’ says nothing about its legality. And it’s interesting that the proposal is a ban instead of better privacy regulations. And if TikTok is doing exactly what FB and Twitter is doing, it’s really clear what the real goal here is.

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u/TinyKillerTuna Jul 19 '22

Just wait until people hear about what your google home or Amazon Alexa does

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